electrical service

[jkukla]

Hi,

We had an electrician tell us that we can not install the hot tub unless we have a 200 amp service in the house.

Does that sound right?  We though 100 amp would be good enough.  It would be for the Tiger River Bengal

[BauerN]

It depends on how much of the available 100 amps is in use.

If you're using most of the available current, then yes, you need to upgrade.

[Spiderman]

I guess that means you can't have an electric stove either.............       I'm no electrical expert, but I don't know why a 100amp panel wouldn't work as long as you have two spaces available.

[Vinny]

100 amp may be OK if you don't have high draw electrical appliances in the house. But some municipalities may require a larger panel.

I would first look at what you have running and the amps associated with them (big items) then I would contact your town and see what they say if an upgrade is required.

Big draw items are stoves, ovens, ac units and electric dryers.

[Mez]

I am no expert either but know from past experiences, like others have said, it depends on how much of the existiing panel box is using up the available amps. You have a couple options, i.e, upgrading your box and service to 200 amp service, or, using a sub panel and existing your service to 200 amp. When I bumped my service up, the utility company ran the new line for no charge. The cost was upgrading the breaker box. It wasnt outrageous, at least 10 years ago. I used the same electrician to run the line for my tub, it costs twice as much to do that but it was 10 years later

[Steve]

As Spidey said... 100 is plenty and all you require is 2 posts. Most homes have 100 amp service and I have yet to see anyone have to upgrade that...

[Swell-Tub]

Here in Vegas 200 amp service is standard. I looked and I have two 60 amp breakers for the AC alone. So I would think if you are not running the AC and the Spa at the same time you may be OK. I guess it depends where you are and if you need to run AC often. Whens it 117 degrees here in the sumer the AC runs a lot. We get $400/mo electric bills in the summer.

Scott  

[Chas]

There are no hard and fast rules about this - each home needs enough capacity to run whatever amount of appliances are present. If you have gas heat, a gas clothes dryer, gas water heater, and gas cooking appliances, you may be able to add a spa to a huge home with a 100 amp box.

On the other hand, if you have an all-electric house, you may need to upgrade the panel even if the house is just a tiny little bungalow.

In my experience, if the panel will not support the tub it was ready to be upgraded anyway. Upgrading the panel is never a bad idea. Is addition to making way for a broader choice of hot tubs, you will also be adding GFI protection to appropriate circuits as well as spark-suppression breakers to bedrooms, and you will end the frustration of not enough power to run certain items at the same time.

I have had so many customers who needed to upgrade to get a spa, and they griped and complained about the cost. But as soon as they were done, they revealed that they had been living with less than ideal power in the kitchen, no outlets in the garage and/or shop, little or nothing outdoors especially on the patio, and had dark corners by the trash bins, cold rooms or whatever. I have yet to hear about somebody being sorry they finally did what they should have done years before.

I have done many upgrades for folks. I am licensed, but I only do a few a year, preferring to sub out to full-time electricians normally.

Not all upgrades are created equally! Some are simple surface-mounted jobs where a new box is placed right over the old one, and the new circuits are run up the wall via exposed conduit into the attic or crawl space. This is far cheaper, but is only generally good if the panel is out of sight on the side of the house. Many electricians get into the mode of doing all these jobs by removing the old box and ripping open the wall to hide all the new wiring. Very desirable if the panel is right in plain sight on the patio or whatever, but not at all needed in every case, and the patch job for siding or stucco adds to the cost of the job. I can generally save our customers a grand by suggesting less 'invasive' techniques, and our electricians are used to giving these choices to our customers now.

Again, YMMV.

 8-)

[Cola]

My first question is how big is your house.  If you have a small to mid size house with an average AC unit and do not use electric heat as your main heat source, you will be just fine.  If you have electric heat only, then you may have a problem, if not, you need to find another electrician.  Your appliances have almost no effect on this.  Your oven only draws current (amperage) continuously for a ten minute startup, most likely during diner.  Your drier cycles on and off during the cycle and your hot tub only draws full amps when all pumps and heat are running.  Your electric water heater only after a shower.  If you plan on doing laundry, baking cookies, keeping all the lights on and enjoing a nice power soak, then you might, trip the main breaker, and even that is not for sure.  It won't cost you any more to wait and find out.

One more thing - if you pay 10 cents per kWh with delivery and your average current draw is 10 amps, you monthly bill would be $172.80

10 amps X 240 volts = 2400 watts = 2.4 kW (kilo watts)
2.4 kW X 24 hours (per day) X 30 days (per month) = 1728 kWh (kilo watt hours)
1728 kWh X 0.10 (cost of electricity) = $172.80

Do you really think that you need a 200 amp service?
I don't think so

Find another electrician

Steve C

[windsurfdog]

The most important question should be, "Do you have gas appliances?"  If you use gas for your range, dryer, heating system and water heater, there is a good chance that your 100 amp panel will suffice nicely.  If you use no gas, I would agree that you need to upgrade your service though, as others have noted, the main breaker may trip during times of high usage...think Thanksgiving or Christmas with company in the house and big meals being prepared.  Playing "Green Acres" with electricity could be dangerous and is certainly inconvenient.

Also, if you have no spaces left in your panel, you could open up a couple of spaces with tandem single pole breakers but that is not guaranteed based upon the manufacturer and age of the panel.  In that case, I'd definitely suggest an upgrade.

Chas gave a great explanation of the process and possibilities.  The only addition I would have is possibly adding an exterior weatherproof panel located near the existing service entrance.  This new 200 amp panel could then subfeed your existing panel plus supply needed spaces for your tub.  And if you get real lucky, maybe it would be located so that a 1" run of PVC conduit and conductors to the tub wouldn't be a big problem.

Another 2 cents well spent... 8-)