Chlorine/Bromine - Pros & Cons

[BauerN]

Well...

...here we go...

I am starting this hoping to learn from the chemical masters on this forum...

...I hope this stays informative, but we all know which road was paved with "good intentions"...

 

[TubsAndCues]

Wow, Bauer, I didn't think you'd start one that fast.  I'm actually going to write mine out and see if I can keep it short and concise.

I probably won't post anything tonight, but tomorrow I hope to have a short and to the point list for you!

thanks for starting the thread though!

[Spatini]

I too am intersted to see where this takes us , I had the question in mind

[TubsAndCues]

Ok, so here is what I came up with for bromine (I got to it sooner than I thought!).  You guys can tell me what you think.  I may come up with some other ones while I'm laying in bed or driving my car later.



PROS
Works well in a wider range (especially higher) of pH than chlorine.
Bromamines continue to kill while choramines do not.
Bromamines do not cause cloudy water, strong odor, or skin and eye irritation.
Can safely be added through a floater with out over dosing.
Does not require daily addition of granules if using a floater.
Does not require breakpoint oxidation to remove bromamines.
Can use chlorine, bromine or MPS to regenerate bromamines.
Bromine lasts longer than unstabilized chlorine.

CONS
Lower pH than chlorine so it will cause TA to drop faster.
Bromine’s lower pH causes it to be less efficient as chlorine at oxidizing oils.
High levels of CYA cause bromine to be consumed 2 times or more faster than normal.
If testing with phenol red, high levels of bromine will yield false pH test results.
Conversion from bromine to chlorine requires a complete drain and refill.


If anyone has questions on chloramines and/or bromamines, look at the thread about switching over to bromine.  I got overly detailed there.  

[wewannahottub]

I am interested in the answers, as well, since it has been years since I owned a spa, and back when we did, we had bromine, and it always had a smell on our skin.  I don;t know if I was using it right back then, I know I didn't shock like I was supposed to , but kept an eye on the chems. and test strips.  

I also remember the dealer telling us if we wanted to winterize our spa, to use antifreeze in the system once it was drained.  Of course, we never winterized it, since that was the best time to use it!!!

Any thoughts on that, as well??

CHrisi

[hottubdan]

Ok, so here is what I came up with for bromine (I got to it sooner than I thought!).  You guys can tell me what you think.  I may come up with some other ones while I'm laying in bed or driving my car later.



PROS
Works well in a wider range (especially higher) of pH than chlorine.
Bromamines continue to kill while choramines do not.
Bromamines do not cause cloudy water, strong odor, or skin and eye irritation.
Can safely be added through a floater with out over dosing.
Does not require daily addition of granules if using a floater.
Does not require breakpoint oxidation to remove bromamines.
Can use chlorine, bromine or MPS to regenerate bromamines.
Bromine lasts longer than unstabilized chlorine.

CONS
Lower pH than chlorine so it will cause TA to drop faster.
Bromine’s lower pH causes it to be less efficient as chlorine at oxidizing oils.
High levels of CYA cause bromine to be consumed 2 times or more faster than normal.
If testing with phenol red, high levels of bromine will yield false pH test results.
Conversion from bromine to chlorine requires a complete drain and refill.


If anyone has questions on chloramines and/or bromamines, look at the thread about switching over to bromine.  I got overly detailed there.  

They both leave an odor.
They both dry the skin.
Con for bromine, it tends to be used incorrectly by people looking for no effort system.

[TubsAndCues]

They both leave an odor.
They both dry the skin.
Con for bromine, it tends to be used incorrectly by people looking for no effort system.

Good point on the con, but chlorine tends to get underused by most people.  At least I think so.  And people looking for a no effort system, there isn't one.  Some are easier than others, but they all require a bit of attention.

As far as the odor, you are correct that both do, but what I was trying to say was that bromamines (vs hypobromous acid) don't have any more of an odor, where chloramines (vs hypocholous acid) has a much stronger odor.

I probably should have been a little clearer on that one.

I hope this thread keeps going.  I really want to hear from others what they think the pros to chlorine are.  

[Saved by Grace]

I very glad this thread got started.  I was reading through the J480 owners manual last night and noticed that there is a "Brominator" built into the floating skimmer gate.  This brought up the question that is on this thread.  Please keep it going.

Also for you chemical experts:  We have a well.  Our water is hard and has iron.  From my limited knowledge of chemistry I'll try to convey my concern.  My understanding is we have two types of iron.  Normal iron and what are called tannins.  My understanding of tannins is that they come from decaying needle trees of which we have many.  Tannins are iron trapped in organic material.  We have two Culligan softerns to handle our water.  One to romove the tannins and the other to soften the water.  For our hot tub we've been told it's as simple as adding a chemical and the filters will then catch the iron (tannins too???).  Simply add the chemical, run the pumps and rinse off the filters.  Please let me know if this is the case and what the chemical would be.  Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks for your help,
Fred

[Chas]

Fred - I think you should move your post to a thread of it's own. You ask some very good questions which deserve to be addressed. I would use 'Metal Gon' with each fill, and be sure to raise your hardness level if you fill with soft water. Very important.

As to the topic at hand - Bromine vs. Chlorine - I want to mention one thing which has been a problem for my customers. That is, the fact that most bromine tablets are compounded with chlorine. So, you fill your floating feeder with Bromine tablets, and you get a strong chlorine gas cloud which starts immediately eating into the vapor barrier in your cover. This invisible damage causes the cover to get heavy -real heavy. It also begins to chew on your pillows and in many cases it begins to discolor the knobs and other plastic parts other than the shell.

The chlorine also tends to work against you by creating that smell which is so common in tubs using bromine. And since it is in the water all the time, you can't just open the cover to let it escape now and then.

And - the floating feeder can overfeed. I have seen so many tubs with high bromine levels, and the owner stares at me as if there is just nothing to do about it. Take the feeder out! Signs of overfeeding are high readings on test strips - and sometimes low readings if it gets high enough to bleach out the strips - and worthless pH readings which drive you nuts. And the famous 'Grey water' which is caused by air entrained in the water. Works up with the jets, goes away about ten minutes later.

One brand I know if - Brilliance from the makers of Baqua products - has no chlorine built in. You add a shock once a week by hand, and you can use chlorine or MPS. Doing so allows you to leave the cover open while you shock so the gas cloud can dissipate very quickly, and not shorten the life of your cover and pillows. It has none of the smell usually associated with Bromine tab use.

There are suppliers who offer pure bromine in powder form. You add it after each use just like Dichlor. I have no experience with that as it is not popular here in the Southern Cal area.

One last item - you need to bank bromine for it to start working. You do that by tossing in a packet of sodium bromide to 'start' the process. This needs to be done after a water change, or if the level is ever allowed to drop to zero - not very common. Bromine users generally are advised to keep a packet or two of this startup chemical on hand. If you don't use it, you can have the experience of filling the spa, filling and placing the feeder, and then waiting days for the bromine level to start climbing. In rare cases it will never climb. This is not as likely if you did a basic water change and were using Bromine prior to the water change, but can happen with a new tub or the first time you try Bromine.

 8-)