Hotspring changing the rules again!

[Mendocino101]

I don't think any of this stuff is any big deal. My point in the whole tp/metal thing was it was a cheaper way to build a spa and now that Watkins wants to come out with a new line that's offers some 'bling" if you will at a lower price point it appears one of the ways to get to that price point is the tp/metal which is fine. It just very much supports all those who have said the reason the company's who build like this do so not because its better but because it costs less to make.

[Mendocino101]

Just to add I think that someone at some point will come out with all synthetic frame which would last forever but it may be more costly to build at this point, I really do not know.

[Steve]

Just to add I think that someone at some point will come out with all synthetic frame which would last forever but it may be more costly to build at this point, I really do not know.

I dunno... a 2x4 pressure treated frame could last forever and most structures outlive the spa itself anyway. I doubt it would be worth the added cost...

But what the hell do I know... Ya need any volume conditioner for that thick locks of yours?  

[Mendocino101]

ha ha... very funny....what an as*..hey can you get me a deal on the conditioner...your right it might not be worth the cost, unless it turns out to be maybe in the future more cost effective. I agree with you that a well made spas frame will out last the spas life anyway as will most shells...kinda like a car...the frame and structure and even sometimes the motor will hold up while everything else around them falls apart.

[BauerN]

Just to add I think that someone at some point will come out with all synthetic frame which would last forever but it may be more costly to build at this point, I really do not know.

Bullfrog Spas have been manufactured for the last year with an all plastic frame.  So far it's been nothing but benefits over the wooden frames.

Hard to tell how much extra it costs, we had a single increase for multiple upgrades.

[spahappy]

Bullfrog Spas have been manufactured for the last year with an all plastic frame.  So far it's been nothing but benefits over the wooden frames.

Hard to tell how much extra it costs, we had a single increase for multiple upgrades.

Whoa, hold on, plastic frames? I didn't know that about Bullfrog.

Plastic frames,  95% of the plumbing located behind removable seats,  and claims that they never leak,  what will they think of next....

[BauerN]

Whoa, hold on, plastic frames? I didn't know that about Bullfrog.

Introduced in 2007.  Love it so far.

Plastic frames,  95% of the plumbing located behind removable seats,  and claims that they never leak,

Less plumbing = less chance of a leak (not saying any high end spa is very likely to leak), also very easy to find and repair (notable considering they're full foam).  
Sometimes they do leak, I had a 2 1/2 year old 552 to fix last summer.  It was very easy compared to other high-end brands I have repaired.  Again, good spas don't leak very often, the engineering just makes it less of a problem.
 

what will they think of next....

Who knows what any of the manufacturers will come up with?

I just hope if it's brands I sell and service, it makes sense (and hopefully improvement).

[spahappy]

It's a slow day here, so I just called a steel shop and asked them to price 1x2" steel, like for a frame. He quoted me $2.23 per ft.

I called a lumber yard and asked the price of pressure treated 2x2 and 2x4 lumber. He quoted 2x2 at .44 cents and 2x4 at .50 cents per ft. :-?

Based on the difference in cost of these materials, how could it be cheeper to manufacture a frame out of steel??

[Mendocino101]

I think your right spahappy that recent prices have now made wood more costly. But in the beginning the steel was cheaper.

That is very cool to know about the Bullfrog and plastic, what have you noticed about most about the differences. Are they more heavy, I would think that they could be if the plastic was very dense.

[BauerN]

That is very cool to know about the Bullfrog and plastic, what have you noticed about most about the differences. Are they more heavy, I would think that they could be if the plastic was very dense.

The brochures say the weight is the same (I personally think they just transferred the old weights as opposed to weighing every model again).
That said, when lifting I do believe they're heavier.  But they also added a sealed ABS base, so they're easier to slide.  R&D finally approved a new, stronger rigidizer, and I think that may add a bit of weight as well.

They've put an impressive warranty on them (but how many frame failures have you ever seen).
Part of the logic is the precision available with an injection molded part.  We'll see what kind of difference it makes.

My two favorite benefits are:
1)Easily removable cabinet panels.  They've come up with a great system to make them a snap to remove and replace.  For me, this means it's easy to add remotes or outside lighting (and other features as they become available).  And, if I do get a rare defective panel, it will take very little work to replace.

2)*WARNING - this part is one man's unproven opinion:  I believe it to be a less "natural" environment for pests as opposed to wood (which Bullfrog used until 2006) - I believe metal will offer the same benefit.  I think I see less yellow jackets and spiders (spiders are a big deal to me - long story) in the plastic frame.  Still, it's WAY too early to tell if this could be true.

[Tom]

Just to add I think that someone at some point will come out with all synthetic frame which would last forever but it may be more costly to build at this point, I really do not know.

Arctic has been there, done that since 2007.  Please see http://www.coyotespas.com for example.  The Duracore(tm) Frame is entirely synthetic, no wood, no structural members as such. Arctic's Flex Cabinet(tm) also uses a synthetic unibody-type frame with no structural members.  Self-supporting shell makes this possible.  Don't know if they'll last forever....

Both versions use replaceable skirting panels of either natural or synthetic wood.  I'd like to think that we came up with that first...  

[Micah]

They've put an impressive warranty on them[glow] (but how many frame failures have you ever seen).[/glow]
Part of the logic is the precision available with an injection molded part.  We'll see what kind of difference it makes.

.

Just about every spa we take in on trade has a frame that falls apart.  Anytime the wood sits on the ground, there is a very good chance that the wood will rot.  Even pressure treated wood rots.

[windsurfdog]

Master apologists among others have argued this point.

Sounds like Mendo has that same ol' burr under his saddle...

[Mendocino101]

Nope, just speaking the truth and I make no apologies for it.
I mean Watkins wants to build a lower priced spa line and one of the ways to lower the price is to use metal and tp . Looks like they used Master as a roll model for a how to build a cheap spa if you don't like that, than take it up with Watkins.

[Steve]

Nope, just speaking the truth and I make no apologies for it.

Let's not start bringing truth into this forum.... All hell will break loose!!