Hotspring changing the rules again!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Unless they can sell it for under 5 even 4000.00 I really don't think it will increase there sales maybe in lower income states?

  Jacuzzi and Sundance both have a price point series as well, but when most people are in that price range they don't want it because it does'nt have as many jets or a stereo for that price,  I use it more as a way to up sell them to the next level, show them the differences pro's and cons so on and so on.  Sometimes it is what they want and they buy it, or they go back to costco and buy the 100 jet spa with stereo,lights the works and think its the best thing since sliced bread,until it breaks down or falls apart.

 Artesian did the same thing a couple years ago with there so called "promotional series".  We brought a few in, and in the end practically gave them away because we could not sell them to that "low end" customer or we up sold them to something better for more money.

   Or HS is really trying to compete with Costco and others and that sell the btm feeder a spa?  Not everybody has a store like Terms that sells 3 or 4 a day, even in Hot Springs world.  I would imagine if HS is coming out with said spa, it would probably be a better seller in places where people cant afford a 7000.00 dollar jet setter.

[Vanguard]

Unless they can sell it for under 5 even 4000.00 I really don't think it will increase there sales maybe in lower income states?

  Jacuzzi and Sundance both have a price point series as well, but when most people are in that price range they don't want it because it does'nt have as many jets or a stereo for that price,  I use it more as a way to up sell them to the next level, show them the differences pro's and cons so on and so on.  Sometimes it is what they want and they buy it, or they go back to costco and buy the 100 jet spa with stereo,lights the works and think its the best thing since sliced bread,until it breaks down or falls apart.

 Artesian did the same thing a couple years ago with there so called "promotional series".  We brought a few in, and in the end practically gave them away because we could not sell them to that "low end" customer or we up sold them to something better for more money.

   Or HS is really trying to compete with Costco and others and that sell the btm feeder a spa?  Not everybody has a store like Terms that sells 3 or 4 a day, even in Hot Springs world.  I would imagine if HS is coming out with said spa, it would probably be a better seller in places where people cant afford a 7000.00 dollar jet setter.


 

You are judging a line of spas that has not even been confirmed by the manufacturer.  Wait until they come out to make your judgments.  From what I have heard from extremely reliable sources, this new line will be totally different than anything Watkins has ever done.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[Mendocino101]

You are judging a line of spas that has not even been confirmed by the manufacturer.  Wait until they come out to make your judgments.  From what I have heard from extremely reliable sources, this new line will be totally different than anything Watkins has ever done.  We'll just have to wait and see.

I asked this question earlier but   no response, but do you know if If you are at liberty to say. Would this be the same line that has already been mentioned here that is a go for production. Spas with more jets, lights for less dollars. Interesting if it is because it has always been argued by many that it cost more more money to produce a wood frame-full foam spa than a TP and metal frame. Master apologists among others have argued this point. I am not criticizing Watkins for doing or considering it. I was just thinking it was a way for them to bring the costs down. If it turns out to be accurate than it really would seem to support what has been said before and that TP is a cheaper way to build a spa and no matter the song and dance you may hear it really comes down to cost.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 True!   But if they are coming out with that type of spa, that would be my opinion.

[Chas]

Time will tell.


 8-)

[Jacuzzi Jim]

HotSpring Spas are still HotSpring Spas.....however......


If so, I would imagine it is simply an effort to capture even more market share.  I hope it's true and they call them "Monkey SeaMonkey Doo Spas".

Terminator

 Pretty much says it here, IF true?    You would think a company would not build a new series thats higher end then they already have in order to gain more market share?  
 You would build a lower end, better price point spa, that will attract that buyer that cant afford a true Hot Springs or Tiger River, but still has Watkins quality, you would hope!

[Vanguard]

I asked this question earlier but   no response, but do you know if If you are at liberty to say. Would this be the same line that has already been mentioned here that is a go for production. Spas with more jets, lights for less dollars. Interesting if it is because it has always been argued by many that it cost more more money to produce a wood frame-full foam spa than a TP and metal frame. Master apologists among others have argued this point. I am not criticizing Watkins for doing or considering it. I was just thinking it was a way for them to bring the costs down. If it turns out to be accurate than it really would seem to support what has been said before and that TP is a cheaper way to build a spa and no matter the song and dance you may hear it really comes down to cost.

I would say this is the same line.  I do not work for them or any of their dealers.  I do, however, know many folks who do both.  I don't really have full details, just what's been told to me.  When going on verbal communication, I usually like to wait and see what really happens.

As Chas says, "time will tell."

[Mendocino101]

I thought it would be. I am surprised that they would go in this direction but obviously they know what they're doing. When the line was first mentioned here it did not mention the TP/metal I think it is just really interesting that for them to want to build a line that they can sell for less retail dollars they do this. It is not a bad thing. but it really again supports all those who for years have said full foam and wood cost more the tp/metal.

[RK23]

Didn't Watkins already take the first step in this direction with a lower end line through Caldera?  It may not have been metal frame/TP, but if I recall the line did have stereos standard and more jets....

[Mendocino101]

I don't think Caldera thinks of itself or is priced as the lower line. It was my understanding the new line would more have "bling" for less bucks...I think it may just be a sign of the times as makers are trying to get though the slow down that is effecting many industries.

[Vanguard]

Didn't Watkins already take the first step in this direction with a lower end line through Caldera?  It may not have been metal frame/TP, but if I recall the line did have stereos standard and more jets....

Caldera did come out with the C-Series.  Kind of an unadvertised special.  The spas were exactly the same as the full-fledged Calderas with a few pieces of equipment swapped out for cheaper stuff.  The siding, shells, molds, foam, structure were all still full Caldera.  Plus, it has a shorter warranty, so the spas are a bit cheaper than the Utopia series spas.

I think rather than trying to speculate what these new Watkins spas will be, we should just be patient and see them when they are released.  I have heard good things.  Yes bling, yes lights, etc.  But until the new spas come out - if they do - we'll have to wait to see what they are.





Mendo, I think you are right.  If Watkins does produce a TP spa with metal frame for a much lower price, then yes, I think we will see that it is cheaper to produce a TP spa.  Remember, foam is pure petroleum.  Seen the oil prices lately?  Really, a spa is probably + or - 90% petroleum.  The shell, siding, foam, PVC, jets, etc.  Foam is one of the single largest costs in a spa - especially multi-layered, different density, closed cell foam.  Just on foam savings alone, an otherwise equally produced TP spa will be cheaper.  

I think it is hard to compare, for instance, Arctic's TP cost to Watkins' full foam cost because the total cost of overhead is probably drastically different.  Watkins probably buys better than anyone in the industry.  The only way to truly compare costs is for a manufacturer to compare their own costs.  That is the only way every other cost remains the same.  

[Vanguard]

I have to go back to something that is bugging me.  And that is the subject of this thread and the initial post.  

1.  How is Watkins changing the rules...again?  The only rules I've ever seen them change is to set the bar higher for the entire industry.  Of course that is an opinion.  I, for one, think this industry is better off because of Watkins.  Now, I also think other companies have brought much to the industry as well.

2.  I have never seen, heard or read anything from Watkins that slams TP or metal frames.  I have only seen Watkins sell why they feel their spas are superior - without slamming competition.  That does not mean that some of the dealers or their salespeople have never done it.  But I don't think you can find Watkins teaching that.  They try to sell up their lines without selling down others.

3.  The changes being discussed here have nothing to do with Hot Spring.  They have everything to do with Watkins.  Hot Spring will remain the spas they are today.  Full Foam, wood frame, high quality spas.

[Mendocino101]

I am sure perhaps some makers somewhere might slam others but not publicly or as company policy but the boys from Watkins are just as proud as the Marquis, Jacuzzi, D-1, etc, etc are and when they get together and have a beer and talk shop I am they all take a good natured swipe here and there but as a whole I think most of the long time big players have some genuine respect for each other. I mean if we were all being open hear I think most know Watkins people are going the bleed the Watkins company line they do such a great job of marketing thier product not only to the consumer but to those who represent it as well and that's not a swipe but a compliment.

I am not saying this new line is a bad idea. I think it is interesting that in the goal to make a less expensive spa with more lets just say "Costco like features" to hit the price that they may do it with metal and TP. I am actually smiling   about it as it sorta vindicates those ( I being one) who have said that the real reason for those who produce spas with the TP/Metal did so because it cost less to make but that's not to say they can not still be a good spa.

[Water Boy]

I thought it would be. I am surprised that they would go in this direction but obviously they know what they're doing. When the line was first mentioned here it did not mention the TP/metal I think it is just really interesting that for them to want to build a line that they can sell for less retail dollars they do this. It is not a bad thing. but it really again supports all those who for years have said full foam and wood cost more the tp/metal.

Not all TP spas use metal frames, fwiw.

[Mendocino101]

Not all TP spas use metal frames, fwiw.

This is true but both have been mentioned as less expensive way to build a spa. The combo being the cheaper way to build than wood or full foam.