Small brown dots

[ndabunka]

(Deep breath) Okay, so here's the situation. I just got back in from my spa and I noticed some spots on the shell have reappeared. As you know I completely nuked my tub the past few days. My cover is looking alot better and is almost cleared up 100%. So my question is, could these spots on the shell be from something else besides bacteria such as tiny asphalt crumbs falling from my roof into my spa?
 My tub sits only about 3' from my house and has always accumulated alot of these crumbs. I don't get them out as often as I should. It should be done weekly but I might do it monthly. Could this be my problem or am I in lala land?

Thanks,

Chad

Btw, I do notice some rust colored areas on my concrete patio and on top of my cover. Is there something in asphalt that turns things a rusty color? I hope so!

There is a product used on lawnd called "Ironite" that WILL create rust spots on concrete (and pretty much anything else it touches).  Is it possible that you had a lawn service that used that product and this is the end result?

[Chad]

  Ndabunka, I do all my own yard work. I did put down some triple 13 fertilizer in early November. I wonder if that has the same effect?


I just got done doing some google searching on my problem and it seems that it's more common than I thought.
From what I gathered, the most common cause of these rust(copper) colored spots is from corrosion of the heater core. Has anyone heard of this here? Supposedly this corrosion of the heater causes a high amount of copper to be released into the water and cause staining on the shell. It's recommended once you notice these type of spots to have your water checked for copper. I've never had my water tested for minerals but it looks like I will. Come to think of it, my last two fills I haven't put in a bottle of METAL GONE during start up. Maybe my water is already high in copper and it's not the heater.

[Vinny]

I have to say I don't know where this would come from. If dropping from above from the roof your spa would be protected by its cover and the cover is on 99% of the time. I have trees by me and when they drop their leaves I have a mess but my tub gets maybe 4 or 5 leaves in the tub when it's open to shock or use but we're talking 1,000s of leaves coming down. If you have a blower it wouldn't be strong enough to suck debris into the cabinet and into the spa.

Your tub is only about a year old and from what I remember you have been pretty good with the water chemistry during this time. Have you had low PH for extended periods of time? If not, I can't see how the heater core would be going in such a short period of time. Honestly, I work on hyperthermia units that the heater cores last 20+ years with no water maintenance what so ever. Also, the heater core wouldn't be thowing rust spots outside the tub.

Is it possible that it's the N2 breaking up? Maybe that's all it is. Copper turns green when oxidized doesn't stay red (take a look at the Statue of Liberty).

Maybe take a close up picture and post it here or bring it to your dealer.

[Chad]

If any thing my pH has been a little on the high side as of late.(but still in range of course)

The heater thing kinda makes sense to me. I'd say about 75% of all the dots are located near the hot water outlet. The ones located outside of the spa but still on the shell are only located on the side where I get in and out. So maybe the water that drips off me is staying on the surface long enough to stain.

I rinsed my filters again today and my N2 seemed fine. I'm really clueless here.
I guess my first course of action is to get my water tested for minerals. Then depending on the results, I might disconnect my ozone, take out the N2, and just go back to straight dichlor. I'm really just fishing at this point.

My dealer is absolutely clueless when it comes to water care. So, I'll be taking a sample to Leslie's where I'll ask for there opinions on the matter.

I've soaked in the spa with these spots alot and have had no signs of a rash. There have even been 3 other people besides myself who haved soaked in the past week or so and they are clear too.  

 :-?Chad :-/

[Bonibelle]

Chad, first you need to put all the facts together:
Is this right?
The dots are on the cover (not likely that they were deposited there from the heater)
The dots are on the outside of the shell (also unlikely that the heater sent them there)
You are thinking that the brown "stuff" is a mineral, but I am wondering why it would precipitate out in small dots only in certain locations and especially why they would appear on the cover. do they appear like a translucent stain or solid material? I am guessing solid since you think they could be from shingles.
Is there any way that oil from a pump could get blown into the water lines?
See if you can collect a few small dots on a piece of white paper. See if they smear or are solid as you try to rub them across the paper using a butter knife. Maybe take a piece of white paper and press it on some dots on your cover and see if they transfer to the paper.


Vinny, I think this calls for a thorough investigation...maybe we need to take a field trip, this is getting very interesting!  :-?

[Chad]

Boni,
The spots on my cover were a different species than the ones on my shell. I think those were just mildew stains.

I'll go out in the morning and try to get a sample and experiment with it.

[Bonibelle]

Seems like a weird coincidence though, don't you think? Maybe totally unrelated, but I am curious to see what you find tomorrow.  good luck

[Chad]

Thanks Boni.

The difference though is that I've dealt with those mildew stains on my cover in the past. The ones in/on my spa are a completely new thing.

[IlliniFan]

Chad,
I inspected my tub today in the bright sunlight.  I had about 4 little rust spots about the size of a large pencil lead on the bottom of my tub near the filter in the footwell under the water fall.  They come off easily when rubbed with a fingernail.  My bromine is fine even a tad high, my ph was a little high and my alkalinity was slightly low, although all this with strips only.  I am still betting we have the same thing.  I have a jacuzzi too with the same shell as you.  my dealer thought this was algae.  Now I am not so sure either.  I do not have ozone, so that is ruled out.  I did not use metal gone as dealer felt not necessary with our city water.  So now you got me wondering again what is going on.  Nothing on my cover, but I do have a closed cell floating foam cover.

[Chad]

Cool, I'm not alone.  

Your description does sound very familiar to mine. They don't smear when rubbed but rather "flake/scratch" off. Mine are no bigger than this [size=72].[/size]

Hopefully I'll get some more solid info after my water analysis tomarrow.

[Gomboman]

Chad...were you experimenting still with your level of dichlor?  Doing anything different?

No. I've been doing everything the same. Like I said, there's no abnormal chlorine demand, my water's chem levels are very stable, and I haven't had any issues with water clarity or odor. That's why I think it might be from the ozonator. I guess I'll give it a day or two and see what happens. If more start to appear after this 12ppm FC shock, I'll be disconnecting my ozonator.

Thanks Vinny.

I guess I was pushing the limits of my Nature 2 and ozone for too long and this is what I got. I'm assuming it was a gradual thing and not an overnighter. Looks like I'll be going back to an unmodified Vermonter Method again. I'll just have to dump and refill a little more often due to how fast it raises the CYA but I'd rather do that than have this happen again, for sure.

Tileman, I thought you said you were doing everything the same? I guess I was confused?  

[Chad]

I'm 2 months into my second fill doing the same routine.
 My very first and 2nd fill I followed a strict Vermonter Method. I didn't have any problems at all with my last fill(#3) and I was doing the same exact routine I'm doing with this fill(#4). Matter of fact, it was my longest lasting one. That's why it's so hard for me to beleive that it's some sort of bacteria growth. I mean I'm anal with my water. I shower 9 out 10 times before I soak. I'm pretty much the only bather and my levels are always in line.

[Gomboman]

Tileman, maybe you can contact Vermonter or send the muck to a lab. I'm sure you would like to know if it's some type of bacteria or not. Just as long as you don't have a rash you'll be OK.  

[Vinny]

Vinny, I think this calls for a thorough investigation...maybe we need to take a field trip, this is getting very interesting!  :-?

I think Chad should PM me with his credit card number and I'll make our arrangements to get to him. I'll pack my Taylor kit, digital camera and bathing suit. Boni, you can pack whatever you like but don't forget the petri dishes for anaysis.

Of course your husband and my wife may think it's a bit strange but hey it's in the name of science.

Oh, BTW so that Chad knows that he's getting a professional service I'll even forgo combing my hair (OK it's close to a buzz cut) and have that Einstein look going!

[Chad]

Stealing a quote from Rod Roddy, "Come on down".

This morning I checked the tub and couldn't find any spots. Very strange. :-?
My cover is now 100% clear.
I tested all levels for the first time since I nuked my tub as my FC is finally back to about 2 ppm. Last weekend my pH and alk were at a 7.5 and 90(where they were for the previous 4 weeks) This morning they were ridiculously low at 6.6-6.7 and 40. I knew they'd be low with all the dichlor I added over the past 3 days but not that low. I added 5 ounces of Baking Soda and I'm currently waiting for the dose to be thouroughly mixed.

Vinny, is possible that my pH being low for that short of a time caused damage to my heater.