1/2 lb. open cell and 2 lb. closed cell insulation

[Chubby Johnson]

Hope someone here can help me out with a simple explanation. I would like to know the difference, benefits and pitfalls of 1/2 lb. open cell insulation and 2 lb. closed cell insulation.

So far I have been to two hot tub dealers and each claimed their insulation was the best.  Each said their insulation was energy efficient and repairs would be easy.

It would make sense that the 1/2 lb open cell would be easier for repair as it was very soft to the touch. The 2 lb. was hard as a rock.  BUT, I have never repaired a hot tub so I do not know for sure.

Which kind of insulation is easier for repairs?  Which is more energy efficient?

[hottubdan]

2# better for energy effiency.

1/2 margionally easier for repair.  

What spas are you looking at?

How much insulation?

[Chubby Johnson]

So far my wife and I have wet tested a D1 Dream, Chairman and an Emerald(can't remember the model).

The Dream didn't fit me. I have a long torso and when I tried to lay my head back and relax for awhile, I went too far back. My chin was pointed upward to the ceiling.

The Chairman had neck jets on the lounge which seemed to spray backward out of the tub. I adjusted the heck out of them many times but it didn't seem to matter, the water still sprayed out.

The Emerald(it might have been an Estate model) had an air system that I did not care for at all. It gave a cold blast of air at first. We both found the air system to be unnessary and something of a waste. I had the same problem with the Emerald seating as I did with the Dream. My head went way back when I tried to lay back and relax.  I had to support my own body weight the entire time. To me, that is not relaxation.

I guess I need seating that will cradle me/us.  For that reason I know a round hot tub is out of the question.

We are not concerned with having a bunch of jets either. Would rather have well placed jets with a fairly big inside diameter for a softer massage.

Comfort and insulation will matter the most.  I don't want to buy an energy hog.

[Shaamus]

Keep in mind that it's not all about insulation.  The pumps in the spa will affect the energy consumption just as much as heating system.  The D1 tubs are very energy conservative, but a lot of that can be directed at their not putting power hogs in for pumps and their use of a small circ pump.  Also, some tubs will dedicate pumps to certain seats that are individually selectable.  Instead of turning on a pair of big 7hp pumps and "diverting" the flow, tubs with individual smaller pumps can be turned on individually so you are only turning on enough power for what you are using.

Don't get me wrong, insulation is important.  But if you're main determining factor is overall energy usage, there are other aspects to consider.

[Brewman]

I respectfully disagree wtih the above.  How often in the course of a typical day, do your spa pumps run?  A couple hours max, possibly.  

And the difference between pump a and pump b is what could potentially run up your power bill.  

Could it have an impact?  Sure, but I'm not thinking it's as much of an impact as the heater running or not- unless for some reason the pumps are running A LOT.

Effective insulation, including the cover, will minimize the heater run time.  And when the spa sits all alone (the majority of a typical day for most of us, I bet) the heater has a bigger impact than the pumps.

My spa filter cycle uses one pump running on slow speed, along with a circ pump running 24 X 7.  

Also, what spa uses true 7 hp pumps?  

[Shaamus]

I didn't say insulation wasn't important.  But look at Dynasty vs. D1 tubs as an example.  If you look at the R-values of their insulation systems, the marks are similar.  But D1 tubs typically use less power because they're not overpowering their spas.  My comment had more to do with the recent trend of putting spas on steroids than anything else.  I know a lot of customers these days want the big powerful tubs, but the ones that inquire about energy efficiency may want to know that it's not all about insulation.

Also, if you look at the Platinum Plus class from Artesian you have a spa that has (5) 3hp pumps as opposed to say a Dynasty with (3) 5hp pumps.  By being able to pin-point the amperage usage by assigning a smaller pump to a certain zone, you don't have to run more pump hp than is necessary.  That's all I was trying to say.

[Brewman]

I know nothing about Dynasty spas, but yes, it stands to reason that if 2 spas were otherwise similar, including water capacity, and insulation, etc....
Then the size of the pumps could have an impact on operating costs.   Especially if one were to run the pumps a lot.  Typically they're off more than they're on.  When both spas pumps are off, then it doesn't matter.  It's only the difference when they are running, which again is a relatively small amount of a day, and therefore a smaller amount of the operation costs.
 The heater is subject to running all day and night.  And in the winters we have here, insulation make a way bigger difference than pumps.  
Maybe for someone living where it's hot all year might the insulation not matter so much.  

  You did say that the pumps WILL impact operating costs just as much as the heating system ( I believe maybe you meant insulation system since the difference in heaters is even less significant than the difference in pumps.  

That was the statement I was challenging.

And I'm still wanting to know which spa maker is using 7 hp pumps.  

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

If you'd like, I think I can print out some rating plates on my laptop. I could mail them to you, and you could stick them on your pump. Then you'd have yourself a nifty 7 hp pump!.......................or would you prefer 8 hp maybe?