Close to deciding

[FFwolfpack]

Hi all, I have been gaining a lot from reading the forum so I thought I would post.

We moved from PA to CT recently and decided to bring our 8 year old Thermospa Avalon with us. It had been on an interior porch so was in pretty good shape. Once we arrived here we had it on an exterior deck where it really started to fall apart in the weather. The wood siding was damaged (partly from an animal). When I went to hook it up to newly run 50amp service there turned out to be a problem with the control board circuit as far as the electrician could tell. There was also a leak somewhere that quickly drained the tub. Due to the age of the tub, the multiple problems, and the dissatisfaction we have had with it - we decided to replace it.

That search has led me many places - jacuzzi, artesian, catalina, marquis, hot springs, coleman, D1 and sundance. We have been trying to keep the price down. My wife and I really like the Sundance Hartford (600 series version of the optima seating pattern) but at $6300 for a wet test floor model '07 before ozone, steps, lifter it feels like more than my wife wants to go for. I like the marquis as well but the pricing is challenging (6400 for the U418 of the everyday line and the dealer doesn't have anything nicer from them at the moment). The sundance dealer recommends a burlington for $5300 but neither of us enjoy the lounger we have so we haven't been that interested in having one in the new spa.

More recently she has asked about a simpler round tub for less cost. Because I want to use the 50amp service we have setup and would prefer not to have to change the breakers to a different amperage if I don't have to, my options are limited. I went and looked at a Coleman California Cooperage 103 today and it seems pretty good. I am unsure about the "thermolock" insulation which is not full foam as that is one of the problems I have with my thermospa. I also wonder about the leg room with the round spa.

I want to check into the nordic 40" deep rounds to check on prices and see if I can see them. I know the closest dealer of theirs didn't have any on the floor when I was there. I am told they are not as good as the coleman, especially in the comfort of the seats.

Has anyone had any experiences with the Sundance Hartford or Burlington or the Coleman (California Cooperage) 103 spas?

Or does anyone have insight into the coleman style of insulation and if it is actually heat efficient?

Or does anyone think a spa without a full plastic base is a concern?

Or finally anyone have any pricing comparisons?

[MarKee]

If you're looking at round spas, you should check out the Marquis Envy:
http://marquisspas.com/spa_envy.asp


The U418 (renamed to the Promise in 2008) is a really nice spa.  It's the most popular model where I work at:
http://marquisspas.com/spa_promise.asp

[Chris_H]

I will give you some insight in the Sundance Models.  The Hartford is very similar to the Chelsee in the 780 Series.  The Hartford should be priced for less than $7K with the normal options like ozone, steps, and a coverlift.  Your price of $6,300 is competitive, in my opinion.

For the Burlington, the price should be around $6K with the normal options.  With that said your price quote of $5,300 is competitive, in my opinion.  If you want a model to do a very good comparison of, I would recommend taking a look at the HotSpot Mallorca from the makers of Hotspring.  This has virtually the same specs at the Burlington and the price should be comparable or even less.  

Since you appear to not want a lounge, I would recommend checking out the Hotspring Prodigy.  This is a little smaller than the units you have listed from Sundance, but I think it packs a punch.  You should be able to negotiate a nice price on one of them probably in the range of the Hartford.  

I refuse to discuss insulation unless one person whom shall remain nameless starts a good old rant.  You are just asking for trouble on these forums.  

I don't think a full plastic base is a concern.  The manufacturers you have listed have been making spas a long time.  They know what is needed to protect the spa and typically they do it well.  

[FFwolfpack]

Markee,

Is 6400 a good price on the U418 for a 2007?

[loosenupspas]

103 Cal Cop is a great little round tub.  Galvalum steel frame and an ABS seamless pan, waterfall and LED light.  Well made great valve spa.  Cal Coops have been around for close to 25 years, I have sold them for five years and have yet to work on one, so they are reliable.  Ask your Coleman dealer for a reference on a tub owner that is similar to the one you are considering purchasing.  Thermo-Lock works great in Florida.   It has been used for years in your area, I suggest talking to an owner directly and form your own opinion.  

[MarKee]

FFwolfpack:

That price is right in line with what we sold them for at the Marquis company stores in Oregon.


Did they talk to you at all about the new 2008 version of the U418?

[FFwolfpack]

I actually just went and checked out nordic and was really impressed.  It seemed to have a lot more room in it than the coleman I guess because of the sloped back seats in the coleman cutting into the interior space.  

Markee, the only marquis dealer here is very small and the 2007 u418 is the only non triangle or round tub they had.  They didn't mention the 2008 version but I would think that is because I am trying to stay lower in price and the 6400 price is already 1k off their posted sale price.

[MarKee]

If you've negotiated with them as low as they will go, there is a $200 coupon on the Marquis Spas website that they might honor.  

[FFwolfpack]

Went back and had the family check out the nordic crown xl.  Loved the depth.  The BIG question I have comes from looking under the tub.  There is NO insulation of any kind on the exterior walls or floor.  The only insulation is a foam layer under the spa shell.  The dealer says heat rises but if it is that simple then why does everyone else use full foam or at least some kind of insulating material around the outside of the spa interior?  I am not trying to start the debate about foam vs foil - I am wondering if nordic is the electricity disaster that they seem like they might be.

[Vinny]

For what it's worth, under $6500 in todays market is pretty good for a spa. I paid that 2 1/2 years ago for my Artesian and prices have gone up dramatically. Marquis, Sundance or Coleman all seem to make nice spas, I never saw the ones you are looking at but if you like it I wouldn't worry too much.

[D.P. Roberts]

Once we arrived here we had it on an exterior deck where it really started to fall apart in the weather. The wood siding was damaged (partly from an animal).

Wow, you have weird weather. Does it rain beavers where you live??

As for heat rising: that's a common misperception. Heat radiates to cold. Hot AIR rises. Insulation- or lack thereof- can really affect your bill. If you like the Nordic - and many people do- see if you can talk to some of the dealer's other customers. They should be able to give you an idea  of how much your electric bill will change.

If you like Optima's arrangement, you might check out the Tiger River Caspian. I'm not sure if it's in your price range or not, but it's made by Hot Spring and has a similar foot dome & seating arrangement. Jacuzzi and Sundance also make round tubs that shouldn't require you to change your electrical setup. Personally,  had a version of the Chelsee for many years, and I was very happy with it.

[tony]

Jacuzzi and Sundance also make round tubs that shouldn't require you to change your electrical setup. Personally,  had a version of the Chelsee for many years, and I was very happy with it.

My Sundance Optima is running on a 50 amp setup with no issues, ever in a cold weather area.  The spas are actually shipped from the factory in the default 50 amps.

[Vanguard]

Because I want to use the 50amp service we have setup and would prefer not to have to change the breakers to a different amperage if I don't have to, my options are limited.

All the Hot Spring Spa brands are 50 amp.  For your price range, you have a variety of Tiger River, Hot Spot, Solana and even a couple of the Hot Spring models as well.

If you are looking for simple, look at Hot Spot and Solana.  Both lines are built with the same quality as the top of the line spas out there.  They do not sacrifice quality with their lower price, they do lose some features, but they are great spas.

[Vanguard]

Went back and had the family check out the nordic crown xl.  Loved the depth.  The BIG question I have comes from looking under the tub.  There is NO insulation of any kind on the exterior walls or floor.  The only insulation is a foam layer under the spa shell.  The dealer says heat rises but if it is that simple then why does everyone else use full foam or at least some kind of insulating material around the outside of the spa interior?  I am not trying to start the debate about foam vs foil - I am wondering if nordic is the electricity disaster that they seem like they might be.

I'm friends with a guy who sold Nordic and D1.  He eventually dropped Nordic because of some of his customer's complaints on electric bills.  He then picked up Master, which worked even worse for him.  Eventually, he just stuck with D1 as his sole brand.

[BauerN]

That is a competitive price on the Hartford, all things considered.

Speaking of round tubs, have you looked into the Sundance Denali?