Programmable Thermostats

[Chad]

I have one that controls my HVAC system for my home. It's one of those 5 star energy savers. I have it set to a temp 4 degrees cooler when I'm at work and also set to a temp 3 degrees cooler when I'm sleeping. I've had this PT for a couple years now and I've definetly seen a significant drop in my heating and cooling bills.

So my question is this, I have always been under the impression since I've joined this site that one should just set their spa's temp and forget it. Because maintaining a tub at 102 versus turning it down 3 or 4 degrees and then turning it back up right before usage would be a wash. Although I haven't seen any documentation on this it seems to be the consensus here. So, I obviously beleive them as some of your guys knowledge with spas is just remarkable, but seriously though why do we save money in a home but not in a spa with a programmable thermostat.  :-/

Thanks,

Chad

[Brewman]

You CAN save money by lowering your spa's temperature IF you keep it low enough long enough vs the time the heater runs to bring the spa temperature back up.

The trick is figuring out if it saves you any money based on your specific usage pattern.

The more often you have to bump up the temperature, the less you'll save.

It a matter of how much time the heater runs during a given period.
The less often (in accumulated minutes/hours) the heater comes on the less you'll spend on power.
 
For my particular use pattern, it wouldn't save enough to bother with.

YMWV.

[Chad]

You CAN save money by lowering your spa's temperature IF you keep it low enough long enough vs the time the heater runs to bring the spa temperature back up.

The trick is figuring out if it saves you any money based on your specific usage pattern.

The more often you have to bump up the temperature, the less you'll save.

It a matter of how much time the heater runs during a given period.
The less often (in accumulated minutes/hours) the heater comes on the less you'll spend on power.
 
For my particular use pattern, it wouldn't save enough to bother with.

YMWV.

My daily routine is a 15 minute soak in the am before work.

I guess the only way to see if it would save any money would be to do a little experimentation. I'd have to monitor how many times a day and for how long the heater kicks on when kept at 102 for 24 hours. Then do the same thing at 98. Then see how long it takes for my spa to go from 98 to 102. I'm almost certain that it wouldn't take over 45 minutes for my spa to increase 4 degrees. It's been almost a year since my last big, spa experiment. Maybe, I'll do it this weekend just for $h!ts and giggles.

I just don't see why I need to keep it so hot for the 23 hours and 45 minutes I'm not using it. It makes me think though that if it is possible to save a signifacnt amount of money doing this, why haven't any spa manufacturers equipped their spas with programmable thermostats. I'm probably just wasting my time.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

why haven't any spa manufacturers equipped their spas with programmable thermostats.

A couple reasons.

1. I would guess the manufactures feel it would possibly add to the complications of operating and programming the spa (looking at the cost of programmable HVAC thermostats I wouldn't think it would add more than about $30 to cost of the spa, and could easily pay for itself in a year or less).

2. It REALLY is only workable for people like yourself, that use the spa, always at the same time everyday (though, some of the better HVAC t-stats have daily, and weekend cycles...adding to the complications of programming   ).

And yes, it would save money... otherwise they wouldn't make them for HVAC.... You might want to get a patent on this idea ASAP (though, if it is patentable, I bet there's already a patent on it)

[Chad]

1. Then they should atleast make it an available option. I mean with such nonsense things (imo) as TV's, waterfalls, and stereos, you'd think such a sensible thing as a PT to try and save money and energy(especially nowadays more than ever) would be feasable and even marketable....

2. Yeah my HVAC t-stat has weekday morning, day, and night - saturday morning, day, and night - and a sunday morning, day, and night.

3. Lol...with all your connections, wanna go 50/50?

[hottubdan]

There is also the issue of heating air vs. heating water and how much you can save (if any) vs. cost of tstat.

[Vinny]

I have one that controls my HVAC system for my home. It's one of those 5 star energy savers. I have it set to a temp 4 degrees cooler when I'm at work and also set to a temp 3 degrees cooler when I'm sleeping. I've had this PT for a couple years now and I've definetly seen a significant drop in my heating and cooling bills.

So my question is this, I have always been under the impression since I've joined this site that one should just set their spa's temp and forget it. Because maintaining a tub at 102 versus turning it down 3 or 4 degrees and then turning it back up right before usage would be a wash. Although I haven't seen any documentation on this it seems to be the consensus here. So, I obviously beleive them as some of your guys knowledge with spas is just remarkable, but seriously though why do we save money in a home but not in a spa with a programmable thermostat.  :-/

Thanks,

Chad

Holy cow, only 4º and 3º! Get that Tstat down to 10º  & 5º lower - you'll save more!!!

I think you can accomplish this with the economy mode, I don't have one but if your tub has an economy mode and can program it to go on 2 hours before you soak - there you go. The only problem is the tub may cost more doing it this way.

[Chad]

I'm afraid to go any lower than 62.

[Vinny]

Never mind turning it down, turn it up when you're home!

My house is at at least 71º when we are home and 65º when we sleep. I have it turn down to 60º whe we go to work.

Heck, Icicles must come out of your shower!!!

To keep it tub related - does your tub have an economy mode?

[Chad]

Never mind turning it down, turn it up when you're home!

My house is at at least 71º when we are home and 65º when we sleep. I have it turn down to 60º whe we go to work.

Heck, Icicles must come out of your shower!!!

To keep it tub related - does your tub have an economy mode?

Lol..
I use to keep my house at 68 when I was home(except for while I was sleeping) but my last natural gas bill was $125! I only have a 1215 sq ft home. So since January 1st, I've been keeping it at 66 and 62 when I'm not there. Luckily I live alone b/c I don't think any women would let me get by with 66. All the ladies I've ever been with like it between 70-110 and I'm not talkin my alkalinity. I'm not sure if it's a nationwide thing but here in the STL natural gas prices have been gettin pretty ridiculous the past year or so.

My J-345 does have an economy mode setting. If I'm understanding it correctly, the heater will only kick on during programmed cycles. Since I have my tub set for two 30 minute cycles, the heater would turn on twice a day. I'm really not comfortable with lowering it to just one filtration cycle a day, so I guess it wouldn't work. Plus I think it would take longer than 30 minutes for it to get back up to my set temperature as I would atleast drop it 4 degrees when not in use. Thanks for the suggestion though...

[Brewman]

That's kind of the kink in the works- to save any significant money, you'd have to set the temperature down more than just a couple degrees.
My spa takes an hour to raise the water temperature 5 degrees- I don't want to have to plan my spa use to far in advance.  But that's just me.  

The way I figure it is that I spend an average of $30 per month to operate the spa, including filtering and time using it.  So maybe $20 per month of that goes to heating the water whan I'm not using it.  Even a 30% savings, which is probalby quite optimistic, isn't all that much money.  I'll pay that much per month to have my spa ready to go when I want to use it.  

I could see the turn down the water tempature save money for someone that maybe only uses their spa a time or two per week.  Or if you go away for a week or two.  

[Bonibelle]

Chad, I have had my tub in economy mode for several weeks...My tub is set for 1- 1 hour filtration cycle in the morning and 1-2 hour in the late afternoon. My thought was similar to yours and since we haven't been using it, why let the tub monitor and heat it all day long? So far so good, every time I check it is at 101. The only problem is that my spa monitor will only check for temp when in a filtration cycle, so if the tub isn't filtering, I can't check the temp from the inside of the house. We have had unusually warm weather, so I may turn it back to standard once it gets really cold.  

Maybe Markee, or Stuart can comment about leaving it in Economy mode in the really cold weather. I don't know if I am saving very much money, but anything is a help.  :-/

I also have set back thermometers, I heat with wood, use solar for my domestic hot water, have a south facing house with lots of windows and am now all florescent!! I have been trying to save energy for 23 years! Oh and I just finally took Chas advice and replaced my old freezer with an energy star..will see if my bill goes down this month!

[Gomboman]

Tileman, I agree with your philosophy. Even though most people here say to Set it and Forget it, I bump mine up and down a few degrees like you suggest.

Keeping the water at 104 when you're not using it seems like it would cost more than turning it up from 100 a few minutes before you soak a few times per week. I would like to see a test conducted. Two identical spas side by side metered would be a cool test. If I were paying $.08 per Kwh I wouldn't care too much but I pay 4 times that to operate the spa....

[Brewman]

If I had to pay your electric rates, I'd probably be a bit more wary of the issue- but I'm paying closer to .10/kwh.  

You'll save a bit by dropping, but probably not much.  

You live in a warm climate, I suspect, and if so, your savings would  likely be minimal because your spa will loose heat slower.  

The only way to ever know for certain is to monitor your spa's power consumption over a few months each of setting and forgetting, and dropping and raising, while keeping your usage habbits constant.  

Otherwise, it's strictly speculation.  

[Cyn]

I'm afraid to go any lower than 62.

Why?