new here- leaning towards the HS Vanguard.

[AstaLaVista]

Believe it or not some will say whatever it takes to sell, especially if it’s not really a lie but just a convenient spin on reality. I also love the one where the manufacturer will have a single jet with maybe 8 ports and they will count that as 8 jets in their jet count.

This site is good at helping people understand a few of the curves out there and to realize wet testing and quality are far more important than jet counts and horsepower.

Hmmmm then in that case you could count the "soothing seven" on the HS as 14 jets right there... !!  

[smitty33]

My wife and I just ordered a Vanguard several weeks ago.  We were just informed that we will be getting the 2008 model instead of the 2007 model that we ordered.  This is because they are no longer making the 2007.  Has production on the 2008 models started yet, or do they start up after the new year?  We are hoping to get our tub by Christmas.

[Chas]

We get updates daily on which spas are still available to promise and which ones have sold out for the year. And on most of the models, they will start the new model tubs early if they have to. In fact, I have four 2008 spas on my showroom floor because we happened to sell the floor models - which we do every year around this time - and it so happened that they were out of 2007 models.

Yes, they will ship the next year model when they sell the last of the current year. They are amazing in the way they do not keep any stock on hand, making just the spas needed just in time. However, they can predict days - sometimes even weeks - in advance the exact day a certain model and color will roll off the line and be ready to ship or pick up. They have it down.

 8-)

[hottubdan]

If your dealer ordered from Watkins, you should get it.  If you don't get it in December look for it mid January.

Everyone here will tell you, the waiting is the hardest part.

[Chad]

"new here- leaning towards the HS Vanguard."

I was having the same problem. Then I realized that I had two different shoes on.

[cburk0677]

I own a 2006 Vanguard and it is an awesome tub. Great jets and very economical. I live in Indy and leave my tub at 100 degrees. So far this winter my electric bill has increased less than $10 per month.

[Richs100]

"new here- leaning towards the HS Vanguard."

I was having the same problem. Then I realized that I had two different shoes on.

arf, arf.  

[lincolnpark]

Thanks for your input so far!  We looked at Caldera's again today and we are adding them to our list.  We looked at the Niagra and the one that's like a Niagra with the lounger (can't recall the model name off the top of my head).  That dealer told us that Caldera and HS are the two best spas out there (he doesn't sell HS due to the protection laws or something- the HS dealer is down the street).

What are the major considerations between the HS and the Caldera?  I know they both use the ozone but the HS used 5 regular sized looking filters while the Caldera used one giant sized filter.  What does that mean to me as a user?  What if I said that it is extremely important to me to have clean water all the time with the least amount of chemicals (as I'm sure this is a common desire among spa consumers).  I don't want to add too many other brands into the mix but we may check out Marquis as there is a dealer in town.  Between these 3 which allows for the cleanest water?

Also I believe the Caldera had a deeper seating, which I desire, although I think less choice of seat height as compared to the Vanguard.

We still need to wet-test these- probably over the weekend

[Spatech_tuo]

We still need to wet-test these- probably over the weekend

Let your last statement be a key indicator as to which to choose along with your confidence in each particular dealer to be there for you both before and after the sale.
I would also suggest that if at all possible, try to wet test all the same day, back-back-back or at least all the same weekend. That way your brain can better correlate the differences you feel in a short time span as opposed to wet testing one this weekend and then another next weekend and having to compare how they feel when one is fresh on your mind and the other not so much.

[AstaLaVista]

Thanks for your input so far!  We looked at Caldera's again today and we are adding them to our list.  We looked at the Niagra and the one that's like a Niagra with the lounger (can't recall the model name off the top of my head).  That dealer told us that Caldera and HS are the two best spas out there (he doesn't sell HS due to the protection laws or something- the HS dealer is down the street).

What are the major considerations between the HS and the Caldera?  I know they both use the ozone but the HS used 5 regular sized looking filters while the Caldera used one giant sized filter.  What does that mean to me as a user?  What if I said that it is extremely important to me to have clean water all the time with the least amount of chemicals (as I'm sure this is a common desire among spa consumers).  I don't want to add too many other brands into the mix but we may check out Marquis as there is a dealer in town.  Between these 3 which allows for the cleanest water?

Also I believe the Caldera had a deeper seating, which I desire, although I think less choice of seat height as compared to the Vanguard.

We still need to wet-test these- probably over the weekend

I believe you are talking about the Caldera Geneva.  My sister has one.  I have the HS Vista.(little bigger than the vanguard )  I have soaked extensively in both.   You will be happy with either.  I actually found the seats in my Vista deeper than the Geneva.  I do love the strong jet in the bottom of the Geneva.  I also thought about getting the Grandee...which is really just a bigger version of the Vanguard.  I Like the motomassage ... however not enough to waste two seats on it.. I rather have more options.

[Jack_L]

We bought our Vanguard in 2006 and it has worked well for us.  More jets does not = better tub.   We are all happy campers in our family, 1.5 yrs later.

[Josh]

Yeah, I just looked on the LA spa web site.. the Heet actually has the same horse power as the Vista here is the cut and paste discription:

2-3     5 MBHP / 2.5 HP cont. each

Very good, they are showing it both ways. Hopefully the salesperson would quote both or if only one way would quote the continuous but ...

that would be the ulitimate flim flam right??  

Wait, now you have me confused.  The LA Spas HEET on the website has close to the same Horsepower as the Vista does.   The Vista says it has two 4.8HP pumps (2.5 continous) and the HEET says it has 2 5HP pumps (2.5 continous).  However....the HEET I wet tested had an extra 5HP pump (2.5 continuous) installed on top of that for a total of 15HP (to the Vista's 9) or 7 continuous to the Vista's 5.

I liked the way it felt so much, that that's the one I ended up settling on.   When I bought it, I ordered my tub configured the same way.   I saw the panel and it had three pumps in it in the showroom.....so I'm not sure how that would make it the same as a 2 pump tub.  

Can someone explain this?

[Spatech_tuo]

3)  I tested a couple of Hot Springs tubs, and liked a few things about them. I loved their flat back massager seats.  Ultimately, I went another way because of a few things.  Their tubs were a little short for me for one.  I was also unimpressed by their jets compared to those of several other tubs I tested. It's not the number of jets themselves (I think they were all in the right places)....but I found there to be a lack of pressure compared to tubs that were priced quite a bit less.  [glow]I think that's due to the horsepower in their motors (the one I eventually bought had over 3 times as much). [/glow]

The above post is the one that got us to respond to explain that you didn't get 3x the HP as you indicated you believed you received. It seemed that maybe you fell victim to the BS of the BHP shell game.

Wait, now you have me confused.  The LA Spas HEET on the website has close to the same Horsepower as the Vista does.   The Vista says it has two 4.8HP pumps (2.5 continous) and the HEET says it has 2 5HP pumps (2.5 continous).  However....[glow]the HEET I wet tested had an extra 5HP pump (2.5 continuous) installed on top of that for a total of 15HP (to the Vista's 9) or 7 continuous to the Vista's 5.[/glow]


Can someone explain this?

In your subsequent post 2 days later you got it right. Your spa has 50% more HP than the Vista, not 300% more.

Now having said that, it should be all about feel, not HP. Since you wet tested I assume you went by what felt best, not simply which had the bigger number.

[TheSpaExpert]

L.A. spas and Hot springs are the only 2 spas that have what "we in the industry" call one hundred percent filtration WITHOUT bypass.
All of the water goes throught the filter.  They stay cleaner than other spas, pay no attention to what others will try and tell you.
I have seen them all and these two REALLY keep the water clean.

[Josh]

The above post is the one that got us to respond to explain that you didn't get 3x the HP as you indicated you believed you received. It seemed that maybe you fell victim to the BS of the BHP shell game.



In your subsequent post 2 days later you got it right. Your spa has 50% more HP than the Vista, not 300% more.

To be honest, I originally thought the Vista had 1 5HP pump and the Heet had 3 of them.  I didn't know the Hot Springs had two pumps (my salesman never mentioned that).   However, when someone posted that they were the same, I knew that couldn't be right....so I went to the website and checked out the detailed specs myself.   The Heet still has more HP....but not 300% more.  I stand corrected.

One question:  How many pumps does the Vista come with Standard?  How about the Envoy?   I'm wondering if perhaps I wet tested a one pump HS vs. a three pump LA.  That certainly wouldn't be fair.

Now having said that, it should be all about feel, not HP. Since you wet tested I assume you went by what felt best, not simply which had the bigger number.

You assume correctly.  The Hot Springs was always in my original top few choices (especially after all the positive reviews I read everywhere).  It's one of the only brands that I really didn't find a bunch of negativity about. While I chalk a large percentage of that up to the fact that the sites I visited are frequented by Hot Springs salesmen.....I also saw many owners say good things, which I really respected.

After a Wet Test, it wasn't a contender anymore.  When I compared the other dozen or so spas I tested,  the LA Spas Heet and Concord ended up as the top two choices.  I figured it had something to do with all that extra Horsepower....but perhaps that's not as important as I thought it was.

For people that know about this stuff....perhaps you can explain a little more.  What does the max horsepower rating mean anyway?