Help! rash!

[IlliniFan]

please help me sort out this rash!  My husband is nearly always in the spa with me except for Thursday morning.  The water was very slightly cloudy.  I soaked in it for about 40 min, shocked it and added bright and clear.  Hubby and I were in it again on Thursday night. While it was dark, the water appeared clear in the lights.  On Friday, I wore a new red sweater and new jeans.  Friday night, I noticed a rash (red raised spots) around my mid section only. Hubby has no rash.  So is the the tub or the sweater?  Would it have taken 24 hours to show up if it were the tub?  Can I use it again w rash?  Should I really SHOCK it now?  I use reserve and renew.  Help!  Please give me your thoughts.  

[TubsAndCues]

Sounds to me like the tub.  I'll give you word for word the sheet we hand our customers:

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Psuedomonas:
The word Psuedomonas is used loosely to describe both bacteria and the rash it can cause when it infects a spa or hot tube.  Its proper name is Psuedomonas Aeruginosa dn is commonly found in soil, water and on plants.

This bacteria does not compete very well with other common bacteria.  The spa's higher temperature kills off its competitors, leaving Psuedomonas alone to multiply very rapidly.  It feeds on proteins, oils, ammonia and nitrogen.

The rash that is associated with the bacteria is know as Psuedomonas Folliculitis.  It is an inflammation of the hair follicles , and usually occurs within 8 to 48 hours after exposure.  It will appear as red bumps or postules with white heads that do not pop.

The rash is usually, but not always, located between the shoulders and the waist (in the trunk of the body).  It is not unusual for one person to get it and another who was in the spa to not get it.  It seems that the wider the opening of the skin pores the more likely one is to get the rash.

Within 3 to 7 days after exposure the rash normally goes away on its own without treatment.  A regular skin lotion can be used to help the itching which can accompany the rash.

Spa disinfection techniques:
1.  Drain the spa completely
2.  Clean the surface with an alkaline surface cleaner
3.  Remove and clean the spa filter(s)
4.  If time permits, allow spa to dry completely
5.  Refill spa (use a new hose or allow water to run for a few minutes before filling spa.
6.  Balance the spa water
7.  Shock the spa with a double dose of Chlorine Concentrate
8.  Maintain a higher than normal sanitizer level for 1 week.

NOTE:  This treatment plan was developed by Dr. Donald Ahearn, Professor of Microbiology at Georgia State University

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There you go.  What I've found is that this critter tends to pop up after 1 fo 2 main things happens - either a fresh fill after the tub has set empty for a while and stuff can grow in the lines OR if your sanitizer level dropped for a period of time (I'm guessing the latter since you noted the water was slightly cloudy).  Either way, once Psuedomonas gets a foot hold you have to drain and refill.

I've actually seen many cases where a large number of people use a tub and only one of them breaks out with the rash and other cases where only one of them doesn't.

Good luck with the treatment!

[Bonibelle]

It would be really hard to say what caused the rash but I (personally) would not soak in the tub if it looked even slightly cloudy. My husband jumped in once (I know he never even looked) and after he got out, he noticed that the tub looked cloudy...I gave him the third degree..he showered right away and nothing happened.

There was an article on TV recenty about the large amount of chemicals in new material. Maybe you had a reaction to the new clothes. Especially since the rash seems to be where your new jeans might rub your stomach. I guess I am goofy, but I wash brand new clothes because I can't stand the smell.

Maybe put a little cortisone on the bumps and see if they go away. Hot tub rash gets ugly, so you will know for sure in a couple of days.

[H823Putt]

I have had the problem last month.  Water was only one month old but gets used alot. I was away for the weekend and my wife did not use it either and forgot to add some dichlor like I asked her to do even if she did not use it. We went in on a Monday night before bed. The water looked fine but by Tuesday night she came down with the rash and I did not. All I did was super clorinate the tub. Still using the same water a month later and she has not come down with it again.

[Bonibelle]

After reading the post by Tubsandcues, I am surprised that the rash would go away so easily.  I know of several people who got the rash and it took several weeks of antibiotics and topical cream to clear it up. My cousin had deep purple bumps that she claimed were very sore. My friends got the rash from a tub at a rental and spent quite a bit for medical treatment for the whole family...guess it depends on how bad you get the rash??? :-/

[TubsAndCues]

Hey Bonni,

The key word in that part about the rash going away in 3 to 7 days is "usually."

You're right though, I've had plenty of customers who have suffered longer than one week.  Some things that I've seen that extend their rashes are re-exposing themselves to the bacteria, i.e. not treating the tub properly and continually using it.  

I've also heard that taking as cold of showers as you can stand while you have the rash can help.  I don't know If this is true, but a few people have told me that after they took a really hot shower the bumps reappeared or got worse.  Their guess was the hot water opened up their pores even more and agitated the bacteria.  I don't have a clue - I'm not a doctor.  All I know is that the only way to get rid of it is to drain, clean, and nuke the tub.

I also tell my customers not to use their tubs for at least a week or at least until they have no more signs of the rash.

[tony]

please help me sort out this rash!  My husband is nearly always in the spa with me except for Thursday morning.  The water was very slightly cloudy.  I soaked in it for about 40 min, shocked it and added bright and clear.  Hubby and I were in it again on Thursday night. While it was dark, the water appeared clear in the lights.  On Friday, I wore a new red sweater and new jeans.  Friday night, I noticed a rash (red raised spots) around my mid section only. Hubby has no rash.  So is the the tub or the sweater?  Would it have taken 24 hours to show up if it were the tub?  Can I use it again w rash?  Should I really SHOCK it now?  I use reserve and renew.  Help!  Please give me your thoughts.  

Sounds like the spa.  It is not unusual for one person to get a rash from the tub while another does not.  The slightly cloudy water generally indicates not enough sanitizer for the amount of use.  Have you checked your bromine levels?  With the Reserve/Renew system, you add liquid bromide at start and weekly, then MPS after each use and weekly to shock.  The bromide waits to be activated into the sanitizing form of bromine by the MPS so after use there is a rise in bromine level much like adding dichlor after use in a chlorine spa.  Bromine levels should drop a little in between uses but should still be present.  You may have to up your levels of both liquid bromide and MPS with the amount of soaking you are doing right now.  I would do a normal shock and measure bromine to be sure you get a good reading...then measure bromine again before the spa is used to be sure there is a residual amount.  As far as using the spa with the rash...it all depends on how bad the rash is.  If it is just a few red spots, you may be able to use it...if worse, definitely not.

[IlliniFan]

I use test strips.  After I add MPS, I get very high bromine levels which I would guess would be normal.  But after about 24 hours, bromine levels are nearly negligable.  But I thought this was normal for this system.  I am new to this and spa chemistry is still a mystery to me.  Water is 1 month old.

[TubsAndCues]

I use test strips.  After I add MPS, I get very high bromine levels which I would guess would be normal.  But after about 24 hours, bromine levels are nearly negligable.  But I thought this was normal for this system.  I am new to this and spa chemistry is still a mystery to me.  Water is 1 month old.

I, unlike a large amount of people on this forum, rarely recommend using MPS for your standard shock.  My main reason is that MPS is only an oxidizer while a chlorine or bromine based shock oxidizes as well as boosts sanitizer levels AND kills bacteria (like Psuedomonas) all at the same time.  

I'm not trying to start the debate over as to which shock is better.  I know a lot of people have good luck with MPS, but I prefer the extra protection I get from a bromine or chlorine shock.

[IlliniFan]

Can I shock with dichlor? Or bleach???

[TubsAndCues]

Can I shock with dichlor? Or bleach???

don't use bleach, but both dichlor and bromine concentrates are fine for shocking.  Depending on brand, there should be directions on the back of the bottles for shock, superchlorination or super oxidation, which all mean the same basic thing.

As far as the rash, though, I'd suggest following the technique I listed above.

One of the problems with Psuedomonas is once it gets a foot hold, it can become almost immune to chlorine or bromine if it has been living with a low level of it for a period of time.  The only cure is drain, refill and follow those steps listed.

[IlliniFan]

Thanks all for the help.  I will drain tub, but I don't think I am going to go back to reserve and renew.  I was using it according to the directions, so I am not greatly comfortable to going back to it.  I don't know what I am going to do.

[Cyn]

I have a question along these lines for all the long time tub owners:  Do you shock once a week even if you don't have a CC reading of .5 or greater?  

[tony]

I use test strips.  After I add MPS, I get very high bromine levels which I would guess would be normal.  But after about 24 hours, bromine levels are nearly negligable.  But I thought this was normal for this system.  I am new to this and spa chemistry is still a mystery to me.  Water is 1 month old.

Your liquid bromide levels may be too low for the use of your spa.  You can activate the bromine with chlorine if you like.  Before MPS, chlorine was always used.  Bromine tabs are mostly chlorine.  Bleach will work but its pH is high and Reserve is buffered to be pH neutral unlike most bromines so you would have to watch that.

I don't agree that you necessarily have to decontaminate your spa and dump the water.  If your rash is severe I would do it but if your talking about a couple of red bumps with no postules, I would just give a good shock with chlorine and bump up your bromide amount.  Many times, though, new spa owners should change their water after one month's use because of heavy use and the inevitable chemical learning curve.  If you decide to switch to chlorine, you have to drain and fill.

Cyn, when I used to shock with chlorine, I would do so when my CC read .2 ppm (shock level according to Taylor Technologies) or more.  With non chlorine shock, I add weekly.  The reason for the difference is because a chlorine shock does a better job of destroying chloramines than MPS, but MPS does a better job of preventing them.

[Vinny]

I, unlike a large amount of people on this forum, rarely recommend using MPS for your standard shock.  My main reason is that MPS is only an oxidizer while a chlorine or bromine based shock oxidizes as well as boosts sanitizer levels AND kills bacteria (like Psuedomonas) all at the same time.  

I'm not trying to start the debate over as to which shock is better.  I know a lot of people have good luck with MPS, but I prefer the extra protection I get from a bromine or chlorine shock.

This is a good point and something I think needs to be considered. We all (on dichlor) should shock the tub with dichlor every so often to get the bacteria that hasn't been killed by regular or lower doses. MPS is great at getting rid of any built up chlorimines and does wonders for getting rid of the residue of stuff that makes the water foam. MPS makes it easier to use the tub in a hurry as well but ultimately the idea is to have a bacteria free tub.