Tragedy in our church

[spaman--]

Yesterday at 1:20p.m my phone  rang, it was Stuart wondering where I was. "why?"  he explains as he  and his family was walking to their car, gun shots rang out from the church. At that moment police cars flew by me in the opposite direction as I was headed to Home Depot. I frantically started dialing all my employees numbers, astoundingly of us at Springs Spas (except 2) attend New Life Church.

One of our employees was in lock down until 4:30 pm another close friend and past part time employee was in lockdown in the basement  of the World Prayer Center. Other employees skipped church for skiing, as I did to do household chores. for a brief time it was extremely scary trying to account for all of our employees and friends. Luckily Stuart and his family had already left the church, as even in his condition I am certain he would have tried to stop the action of the assailant.

The police found smoke bombs placed around and through out the church. The killers plan was much larger than killing 2 sisters, wounding their father and grazing a fourth victim. One courageous security guard (a female) shot and killed the assailant, what an amazing leap of faith as God gave her the strength to shoot and kill a man armed with heavy assault rifles attempting to kill everyone in his path. I do not know this lady but I sure want to thank her personally as this would have been much worse had she not have been in Gods grace and blessed with courage.

I look and think back, where would have my family and myself been had we gone to church? Its simple really we would have been in the foyer with Stuart and his family discussing our blessings of the season. Whew!

Rest assured my family and myself will be there at the church for the teen service and worship Wednesday. Our faith not shakin' but made stronger by a tragedy that could have had much worse results. While we grieve for the losses of the victims we must somehow find good and forgiveness.

[Brewman]

I'll probably get spanked for saying this, (bring it) but you have to wonder how many more would have died or been injured had there not been armed volunteers in that building.
Kudos to that woman for saving who knows how many lives.

 One of the victims was from this area.  

[Richs100]

Spaman

I'm glad to hear your family along with Stuart and his family are all ok.  What a terrible experience.  If not for that armed security guard at your church, it looks like this could have been much worse.  (I am still surprised at the idea of an armed security guard in a church, but I guess when everyone has guns, everyone has guns)  Your congregation has sure been through a lot this year already.  My sincerest condolences to the families who are suffering such terrible losses at this time of the year.

Rich

[Mendocino101]

what is going with people ? I think there are many reasons. Not to over exaggerate the medias role but I think the way these stores get covered plays in a part in copy cats. I am so sorry for all those involved. My prayers go out to all the families.

[Brewman]

Put the blame squarely where it lies- on the shooter.  The media didn't make him do that, his gun didn't make him do that, his twisted sick mind made him do that.  
  They need to start putting a little discipline back into the public schools, and parents need to get their nads back, stop acting like their children's friends, and start being parents.  I've seen so many expamples of children mis-behaving out in public while the parents ignore or even encourage their behavior.  
 These kids don't stand a chance in the real world when they learn it's not all about them- that sometimes you loose, sometimes people will dis-agree with you.  No coping skills.  They simply aren't being taught to live in the real world.  

[Renee]

Spaman....my thoughts and prayers are with you and your community at this time.  That's gotta shake you up a little, knowing you could have been there.  Do you guys always have an armed guard there, or was it just a divine coincidence that day?  

Our state was shaken up last week with the Omaha mall shooting.  We have family and friends in Omaha, and it seemed like forever before they released the list of victims.  I can't even imagine what those families are going through this holiday season.   What a senseless loss of life.

I think we will see more of this, as our families break down in this country.  Kids need BOTH parents full time.   And as Brewman said, they need their parents to be parents.

[Repeat_Offender]

Is it just me or is anyone else disturbed by the fact that a church feels the need to employ armed security guards? Is there a history of violence in this community or congregation?

[96SC]

Is it just me or is anyone else disturbed by the fact that a church feels the need to employ armed security guards?

Yes, that caught my attention, too.  Sorry state of affairs in this country if we need security guards at every event where the public gathers.  Then again, with all the wackos out and around it is becoming necessary to have them.

[thearm]

Is it just me or is anyone else disturbed by the fact that a church feels the need to employ armed security guards? Is there a history of violence in this community or congregation?

I am alarmed for the need to have armed guards in our houses of worship. However it seems this is the world we live in. I believe that the church in question was on special guard because of the other shootings at the other facility. My prayers go out to all the victims and there family's. Thankfully there were armed guards to prevent a bigger loss of life. Maybe if there were more armed citizens in public they could prevent or at least limit the loss of life. Life is precious, live each day as if it were your last.

[Chas]

My family and I have a long history with YWAM. This was a shocker - our prayers are with those who lost loved ones.

[Richs100]

Put the blame squarely where it lies- on the shooter.  The media didn't make him do that, his gun didn't make him do that, his twisted sick mind made him do that.  
  They need to start putting a little discipline back into the public schools, and parents need to get their nads back, stop acting like their children's friends, and start being parents.  I've seen so many expamples of children mis-behaving out in public while the parents ignore or even encourage their behavior.  
 These kids don't stand a chance in the real world when they learn it's not all about them- that sometimes you loose, sometimes people will dis-agree with you.  No coping skills.  They simply aren't being taught to live in the real world.  

Brewman, I wish it was as simple as you say. But apparently this kid was from a deeply religious family and had been home schooled.  So I don't think too much blame can be landed on the doorsteps of the public education system in this particular case. He apparenlty had a history of problems, as the media is reporting he was ejected from this missionary school several years ago and had been sending threatening messages to others.  If true, I'm curious as to why he wasn't dealt with before now, and why oh why, would he have access to assault rifles or other weapons??  (Admittedly, the media loves this stuff and throws out all kinds of inaccurate, sensational information, so the above info could be wrong.)

I personally think that we have always had, and will always have, a certain segment of the population that just does not fit in to society. I think these people have always been with us.  They just were not as obvious to us.  Today, due to our advanced communications and media, they immediately rise to prominece and notariety.  And they obviously have ready access to these horrific weapons they use to inflict maximum harm to the people around them.  And why does it seem like some of these kids can get their hands on an assault rifle easier than a can of beer??   I, personally, would not have a clue where to go to get a freakin' assault rifle.  I cannot believe this does not constitute part the problem here.

[Mendocino101]

Put the blame squarely where it lies- on the shooter.  The media didn't make him do that, his gun didn't make him do that, his twisted sick mind made him do that.  
  They need to start putting a little discipline back into the public schools, and parents need to get their nads back, stop acting like their children's friends, and start being parents.  I've seen so many expamples of children mis-behaving out in public while the parents ignore or even encourage their behavior.  
 These kids don't stand a chance in the real world when they learn it's not all about them- that sometimes you loose, sometimes people will dis-agree with you.  No coping skills.  They simply aren't being taught to live in the real world.  

Around the corner from where I live there is a large church similar in size to this one and we sometimes take our dogs there at night to run in a field that is behind the church. We have met a security guard there who has told me that the reason for his being there that it had to do with terrorism, that threats have been made to churches in general not them directly but that is why he and others are there around the clock.

Brewman I am not at all saying its the medias fault, I just do not think they are always responsible in the way they cover stories.

[East_TX_Spa]

Thank God for this woman, Jeanne Assam.  She was working as a volunteer in the church and had a concealed carry license.


She saved untold numbers of lives and is a true hero.

I was at church Sunday with my little girl, legally armed with a 9mm handgun.  I can only hope that I would have the same amount of guts and courage as Ms. Assam should I ever find myself in a similiar situation.  I would venture to guess that probably a fifth of our congregation is armed.  I only pray that we can get that number up to 95% or better.

EVERY qualified American should take the responsibility to do EVERYTHING within their power to protect their family and friends.  If you can legally own and carry a firearm and choose not to, you should hang your head in shame.
 

George, I am thankful that you and Robert and your families are safe.  It is a terrible tragedy for the others.

Terminator

[Richs100]

Hey Term, don't get me wrong.  Despite the fact that I am a non-gun owning, blue state, east coast liberal, I truly respect your right to arm yourself, your family and that (wished for) 95% of your congregation.  Personally, I would be scared to death to sit in one of the pews in your church, but I understand that this is your local community's custom and standand, and I respect that.  

With that said, however, I do have a question about these "assault rifles" the media keeps talking about.  It seems like most of these shootings involve these kinds of weapons.  Why can't the Gub'mint regulate these weapons like they do hand grenades and land mines.  Last I heard, we don't have much of a problem with them in our schools, churches and shopping malls.  

It would seem to me that the legitimate value of these rifles as a defensive and/or recreational weapon is vastly outweighed by the "mass killing power" they also have.  Especially, if they constantly turn up as the weapon of choice at these tragedies.  

I never hear this discussed in the news.  And I am genuinely curious as to other views on the issue.
Thanks,
Rich

[East_TX_Spa]

With that said, however, I do have a question about these "assault rifles" the media keeps talking about.  It seems like most of these shootings involve these kinds of weapons.

The term "assault weapon" is a selective fire rifle or carbine firing ammunition with muzzle energies intermediate between those typical of pistol and battle rifle ammunition. Assault rifles are categorized between light machine guns, intended more for sustained automatic fire in a support role, and submachine guns, which fire a handgun cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

The leftist mainstream media is using the term out of context to scare the public at large.  To date, there has only been 1 instance of a legally obtained assault weapon being used to commit a crime, and it was by a police officer.

The weapons being used by these losers are semi-auto rifles....one pull of the trigger, one bullet fired.  No different from Elmer Fudd's hunting rifle.

 Why can't the Gub'mint regulate these weapons like they do hand grenades and land mines.

There are currently over 20,000 firearm related laws on the books.  How many more will it take?  100, 10 thousand?

Simply enforce the laws on the books.  Don't take away more rights from responsible, qualified, law-abiding citizens.

Fully automatic weapons have been regulated by the federal government since the mid 1930's.  Anyone possessing a fully-automatic weapon in this day and age is (a) doing so legally by complying with all federal regulations and background checks or (b) doing so ILLEGALLY.

Grenades, bombs, etc are explosive devices and should be regulated.

It would seem to me that the legitimate value of these rifles as a defensive and/or recreational weapon is vastly outweighed by the "mass killing power" they also have.  Especially, if they constantly turn up as the weapon of choice at these tragedies.

I would suggest going to www.ar15.com and posing your question there.  

Dang, I started writing this response an hour and a half ago, but some lady came in and bought a Sovereign.  Sorry it's taken so long to reply.

Term