I have a rash on my arms, don't think it's bateria

[squale]

I just got my used spa set up about 4 days ago.  The spa was sitting outside for 9 months with no water in it from the prior owner.  I got it home, wiped it out, filled it up, added the start up chemicals and bromine (the spa is a Sundance Altamar and it has an Ozonator too).  I then shocked it with non-chlorine shock.  The went in it about 8 hours later once the water got warm enough..  I have used it at least 1-2 times a day for the past 4 days.  Now I have this rash on my arms.  the rash almost looks like poisen sumac, it doesn't look like raised pimples like that spa bateria rash looks like.  I get this same type of rash when I go away on vacation to a tropical area by the ocean.  I think it has something to do with the salt in the air and ocean drying out my skin or something.  Well now I have the same rash from the hottub.  Like 2 nights ago, I shocked it again with 2 ounces of non-chlorine shock because I had my water tested at the dealer and the printout said to add shock, ph decreaser, and stain and scale remover (I have hard water).  Well I shocked it, tested it, the bromine level was at like 8ppm, then I got in it.  do you think that by getting into the tub with high bromine that could of caused my rash?  does bromine often give people a skin reaction versus chlorine?  whenenver I go into a chlorinated pool I never seem to have a problem.

I'm wondering if I should look at switching to a mineral system that goes inside my filter because I also have an ozonater and wouldn't then need to use many chemicals if any at all.

[D.P. Roberts]

I'm no dermatologist, but bromine can cause rashes, and 8 ppm is pretty high. The highest recommended "safe" reading is 4-5 ppm, and 10 ppm is considered to be "shocking", so 8 a high dose. If your bromine level is that high, it's doubtful you got a bacterial infection from your water, but you might want to see a dermatologist just in case, especially if the rash doesn't go away. In the future, don't go in unless your bromine level is below 5 ppm.

You might try Nature 2 or another "alternative" mineral sanitizer. However, keeping a bromine or chlorine residual is still recommended.

[Chad]

Squale,

I find it rather odd that it's only on your arms.
By any chance do you rest your arms on the top of your spa's shell while soaking?
Did you get a new cover with the spa or is it the same one the previous owner(s) used? I'm thinking that the old cover has some type of bacteria on it and is being transfered to the top of the spa shell and then to your resting arms. Once a week I clean the top and outside edge of the shell that doesn't get exposed to the fill water with just a small towel dipped in moderately high chlorinated water. I also wipe down the underside of my cover.

I use a mineral cartridge(N2) and have O3 as well. I've been using less than half the amount of dichlor since using these two secondary santizers. My tub pretty much only gets exposed to one bather regularly, me, so I'm able to really put my water to the test. I soak every day for about 10-15 minutes and only have to add dichlor once a week to about 5ppm. I do however shock with non chlorine shock(mps) about every 7-10 days as well. I wouldn't recommend cutting your dosage down this low until you get very familar with your spa. I also shower before almost all my soaks, which tremendously helps keep your tub clean, clear, balanced, and less demanding for daily dose of a primary sanitizer.
 

Btw, I forgot to say that I also bring my tub to 10+ppm FC about every 3-4 weeks.

[Vinny]

Some people have a reaction to MPS as well. This might be the reason.

Bromine is not as powerful as chlorine in the killing department and since your tub was used who knows how "clean" it was inside the pipes.

I didn't read all your posts but did you clean the tub before adding water for soaking?  If not I would dump the water, add fresh water and chemically clean the tub with a lot of chlorine (see here: http://www.rhtubs.com/bbs/FAQ.htm )... make sure you clean the surfaces as well - tub and cover to kill everything, which is what Chad is suggesting. Dump, refill and try again.

[squale]

well I shouldn't have to dump it now that i have already shocked hte tub 3 different times, anything that was living in the pipes should certainly be dead now I think.  I don't rest my arms on the top of the cover.  I was however putting my arms into the water to set up the filter early on after filling the tub and after putting chemicals in it.

[Vinny]

What did you use to shock the tub? If it was non chlorine shock - MPS - it doesn't do anything to kill bacteria.

To chemeically clean a tub when there is a biofilm in it you need to use 50 PPM chlorine at least, as I said bromine isn't as strong as chlorine. To chemically clean the tub Bromine would have to be close to 100 PPM at least.

Biofilms are not the standard bacteria. Think of a pool getting green with algea, even though you use enough clorine there still are times that a good heavy duty shock and/or scrubbing is needed. If and this is an BIG IF there is a biofilm present then a 10 PPM shock is not doing anything.

As far as the cover ... Bacteria can be transfered any way. If bacteria is on the underside of the cover and you close the cover now the bacteria is on the spa's shell - that's why I suggested cleaning the cover and the spa. I was following Chad's lead as to where he was going (or at least I think he was going).

The reason for dumping the water is a bromine spa remains a bromine spa and since chlorine is the prefered sanitizer for large scale killing - this was my logic.

Your rash may not be related to anything at all, just a coincedence or it may be due to your skin's reaction to hot water or it may be something more. If you suspect the spa then you have to take the correct steps to ensure complete disinfection.

[squale]

well I haven't been in the spa the past 2 days and the rash on my arms is basically gone.  I have a feeling it might be from the bromine.  The gym I go to has a couple hottubs and I sit in them like everynight for the last 2 years so I doubt I have a rash just because of hot water.  I should call and ask the gym what they use in their spas, whether it be bromine or chlorine.  These are public spas with heavy bather load.

[squale]

okay the hottubs I go in at my local gym use bromine too, and I"m sure they are running in the 5-6ppm range because it's a public hottub.  I just checked my spa here at the house and it's down to 5ppm bromine, so maybe I should go in it again and see if the rash comes back.

BTW.. when I first started the spa, my local dealer sold me a few chemicals.  He gave me something that is called "Spa Initiator" but it doesn't say what's in it.  Then he gave me something called "Spa Shock, bromine and chlorine free", and then bromine tablets.

I filled the spa, put in 2 ounces of "spa initiator", then two ounces of "spa shock" then 4-5 bromine tablets into the filter door (it's a Sundance Altamar spa).

1.) What is in that "spa initiator product"?

2.) What is in the "Spa Shock" and what's it's purpose if it isn't strong enough to kill bacteria?

Thanks

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

1.) What is in that "spa initiator product"?

What brand is it? What does the label indicate it's for or does?

2.) What is in the "Spa Shock" and what's it's purpose if it isn't strong enough to kill bacteria?

Typically if it's non-chlorine shock it contains MPS (mono sodiumpersulphate). It's purpose is to oxidize dead organic material in your water. As has been said, it does NOT kill or sanitize anything. In a bromine spa it serves a second purpose and also oxidizes the bromide ions converting them to hypobromous acid, the killing/sanitizing form of bromine

[squale]

It doesn't saying anything on the label besides that it was manufactured for Pelicon Pool and Ski shops, that's where I bought it from.

[cooltoy2000]

Could just be bacteria.

[squale]

I don't want to speak too soon, but I haven't gotten any rashes yet at all once I ran bleach in the brominated water, drained the tub, wiped down the tub with a diluted bleach solution and then refilled the tub up with fresh water and began using Dichlor... NO MORE BROMINE!!!
I think the Bromine might of been giving me that rash, not sure though because it could of been something else that was in the water, but since I bleached the water first, then drained it, anything that could of been living in the water is definately dead now.
Weird thing is, everytime I go away on vacation to a tropical place (which is usually the only places I vacation), I get this same rash on the insides of my arms, on my wrists and sometimes on my inside upper thighs.  I could never figure out what the heck this was from.  Then I started thinking, you know everytime I go on vacation I am going in a hottub at the resort or cruise ship I am on.  So therefor, maybe it's BROMINE that is in the hottubs causing my rash.  Because the rash was EXACTLY the same rash I got from using my hottub at home when I was running Bromine in it.  Now I switched to Dichlor, been in the tub 3 different times so far and still no rash (knock on wood!).  Plus I like the feeling of my skin better after getting out of the tub with Dichlor.  No more smell, no more different feeling of the skin, etc.  When I get out of my Dichlor tub now, my skin feels as though I just got out of my regular shower and I have no smell.  I actually don't mind NOT showering now after using the hottub and just going to bed as is.  When I was using Bromine, I HAD to shower after getting out of the hottub, I didn't like the smell left on my skin.
 
So far, THUMBS UP for Dichlor in my opinion.  Now I still have yet to shock the tub with MPS, that comes this weekend for my weekly shocking.  But so far I have just been putting in about 2 teaspoons of Dichlor after each soak.

[tony]

I don't want to speak too soon, but I haven't gotten any rashes yet at all once I ran bleach in the brominated water, drained the tub, wiped down the tub with a diluted bleach solution and then refilled the tub up with fresh water and began using Dichlor... NO MORE BROMINE!!!
I think the Bromine might of been giving me that rash, not sure though because it could of been something else that was in the water, but since I bleached the water first, then drained it, anything that could of been living in the water is definately dead now.
Weird thing is, everytime I go away on vacation to a tropical place (which is usually the only places I vacation), I get this same rash on the insides of my arms, on my wrists and sometimes on my inside upper thighs.  I could never figure out what the heck this was from.  Then I started thinking, you know everytime I go on vacation I am going in a hottub at the resort or cruise ship I am on.  So therefor, maybe it's BROMINE that is in the hottubs causing my rash.  Because the rash was EXACTLY the same rash I got from using my hottub at home when I was running Bromine in it.  Now I switched to Dichlor, been in the tub 3 different times so far and still no rash (knock on wood!).  Plus I like the feeling of my skin better after getting out of the tub with Dichlor.  No more smell, no more different feeling of the skin, etc.  When I get out of my Dichlor tub now, my skin feels as though I just got out of my regular shower and I have no smell.  I actually don't mind NOT showering now after using the hottub and just going to bed as is.  When I was using Bromine, I HAD to shower after getting out of the hottub, I didn't like the smell left on my skin.
 
So far, THUMBS UP for Dichlor in my opinion.  Now I still have yet to shock the tub with MPS, that comes this weekend for my weekly shocking.  But so far I have just been putting in about 2 teaspoons of Dichlor after each soak.

Sounds about perfect.  Hows the pH and TA doing?

[squale]

PH is at 7.9,  Total Alk is at 115

[tony]

PH is at 7.9,  Total Alk is at 115

Not bad, its getting close.  Don't be afraid to let you TA drop to about 80.  Your pH will tend to naturally drift down at that point.