Is it okay to put bleach in a hottub for cleaning?

[Bama]

My routine:  for my 650 gallon L.A. Spa

Thirty minutes to an hour before I drain the spa, I shock the begeezes out of the tub.    After the tub is drained, I scrub it with dichlor granules, then spray is down and let it drain.  I fill the tub.
Maintenance:
After each use (daily)  I toss in one cap full of dichlor. turn on the jets for 20 minutes, then close it up.
Every Saturday,  I shock the spa with 4 capfuls fo dichlor.  
Haven't had a problem in one year.

***Filters....I spray my (fabric) filters with a water hose, then put them in the microwave for 4 minutes on high.  This kills all bacteria and prolongs the life of the filters.

[SerjicalStrike]

In order to get rid of biofilm, we have had to to add 5-6gallons of bleach to quickly get the ppm of chlorine level to 100ppm.  You NEED to get it that high to make sure you break up the biofilm.  If you want to use granular dichlor to get it to the same level, go ahead, but it will probably cost you a lot more.  We are not trying to maintain this level for hours or days.  We are trying to get it up that high for less than an hour, so the chlorine dissipating is not an issue.  

We have dumped that water on all types of manicured lawns and landscaping and have yet to have one issue with dead grass/trees/plants.  We have never had an issue with the stainless steel escutcheons on the jets.  

I would never recommend bleach as a primary sanitizer, but to get the ppm level up that high and that quickly, it is the cheapest/easiest solution.  


@ Bama ---  If you used something to test that chlorine, you would probably see that you could get away with adding less chlorine after each use.

[txwillie]

Not intended to be argumentative, but why would you use bleach instead of dichlor? Isn't dichlor about 80% more concentrated and PH neutral? Plus, what about the surfactants and other stuff (lemony scents and such) in bleach? My prediction....Squale will soon be posting about foam problems.

txwillie

[Steve]

In order to get rid of biofilm, we have had to to add 5-6gallons of bleach to quickly get the ppm of chlorine level to 100ppm.  

We have dumped that water on all types of manicured lawns and landscaping and have yet to have one issue with dead grass/trees/plants.

Are you saying that 100ppm chlorine will NOT kill grass, etc.?

We use to recommend getting sanitizer levels below 1ppm prior to dumping on the grass!
There's no doubt in my mind that 100ppm WILL kill grass. Sorry....

[SerjicalStrike]

Are you saying that 100ppm chlorine will NOT kill grass, etc.?

I'm saying that in the dozens of times we have had customers do it, it has NEVER, NOT ONCE, happened.   Maybe up here in NH we just have strong grass  

We use to recommend getting sanitizer levels below 1ppm prior to dumping on the grass!

So how would you get rid of biofilm?  Biofilm takes 50-100ppm chlorine to break down.  Are you going to let 100ppm chlorine just sit there until it gets down to <1ppm so the customer can drain it?  I would risk dead grass before I risked getting in a tub that had biofilm.

Not intended to be argumentative, but why would you use bleach instead of dichlor?

txwillie

It's cheap.

[tony]

Bleach and dichlor will get you to the same place, just with different side effects.  They are both chlorine, just manufactured in a different way.  Bleach is sold at pool stores in double strength as liquid chlorine or liquid pool shock.  It is no different than what you puchase at the local grocery store as long as buying straight unscented bleach.

All chlorines have their good points and their bad points.  Bleach has a relatively high pH, is difficult to transport (liquid) and looses strength over time.  For these reasons, it is not recommended for use in a spa.  It does have relatively few byproducts, is almost all water and is probably the closest to pure chlorine.  We use bleach in our washing machines and commercial dishwashers amongst many other uses.

Dichlor has a relatively neutral pH and is easy to transport (quick dissolving granules), thus it is recommended for use in spas...especially by the spa manufacturers.  They like pH neutral and quick dissolving.  It is nearly 50% by cyanuric acid (aka pool stabilizer) which will build up in the spa water (especially if you shock with dichlor) and reduce the sanitizing abiltiy of the chlorine over time.

There are others such as lithium, cal hypo and trichlor that all have their particular qualities which make them acceptable in certain uses and not so in others, but they all are the same basic chlorine.

[squale]

the bleach I used had a slight scent called "Regular Scent" it was the cheapo Americas Choice brand sold by A&P Food stores.  I don't think this SCENT will make much of a difference at all.

[tony]

the bleach I used had a slight scent called "Regular Scent" it was the cheapo Americas Choice brand sold by A&P Food stores.  I don't think this SCENT will make much of a difference at all.

No problem because you just used it to disinfect and then drain.  I use bleach in my pool as a sanitizer boost so I use straight bleach or I buy the pool shock at the pool store.  When using bleach to sanitize a pool (or spa), you have to watch your pH and be sure you don't spill it on yourself.  It will sanitize just fine, it just has characteristics to be aware of.

BTW, bleach is bleach whether it be a name brand or generic.

[Bama]

@ Bama ---  If you used something to test that chlorine, you would probably see that you could get away with adding less chlorine after each use.

Serj,
Thanks for your input.  
I use 3 or 4 capfuls; equal to 3-4 tablespoons, of dichlor in my spa, because that's how much
it takes.   My spa is approximately 8' x 11' and holds 650 gallons.  
When I first got my spa, I didn't use enough dichlor.  After posting my problems,
My cousin Vinny, Drewstr, Brewman, and Wmcall came up with the solution.
I have not had a problem since, and that was a year ago.

[Steve]

I'm saying that in the dozens of times we have had customers do it, it has NEVER, NOT ONCE, happened.   Maybe up here in NH we just have strong grass  


So how would you get rid of biofilm?  Biofilm takes 50-100ppm chlorine to break down.  Are you going to let 100ppm chlorine just sit there until it gets down to <1ppm so the customer can drain it?  I would risk dead grass before I risked getting in a tub that had biofilm.

WOW, that IS strong grass! Send me some seeds will ya? Does it chip the blade of the lawnmower when you cut it?

Getting rid of bacteria requires dramatically increased, sustained levels of sanitizer. I haven't read anywhere about the 50-100ppm but I'm not saying you're wrong. Where did you get that info from out of curiousity?

It's not like you can test for levels once over 20+ppm anyway right? :-/

When treating a spa for biofilm and then draining it once all the steps have been accomplished, I recommend draining it ANYWHERE but on the grass. Hows that?

Steve

[In Canada eh]

Hey Guys

  It doesnt take 50 ppm to kill bio film!

  5 ppm maintained over a 24 to 48 hour period will get it.  Now I understand that most here do not want to wait the day or two but believe me 25 ppm for 1 hour and the bio film has no chance.  

  At work we regularly treat a newly commissioned or re-commissioned watermain to 30 to 35 ppm, wait 24 hours then dechlorinate and flush.  We then sample the water, wait 24 hours and then sample again.  I have never had a bad sample.  This is a watermain I'm talking about, thousands of gallon of water not a 300 gallon hot tub and I have seen some pretty nasty bio film.

  And for what its worth I have seen 15 to 20 ppm kill a lawn overnight

[squale]

well I just put new water in my spa, and put in some PH Descreaser, Stain and Scale control, and then 4 teaspoons of DiChlor.  My spa is 385 gallons.  After 10 minutes of adding the DiChlor I was reading 10ppm of free chlorine.

Wonder how long I have to wait to get into the tub?

[tony]

well I just put new water in my spa, and put in some PH Descreaser, Stain and Scale control, and then 4 teaspoons of DiChlor.  My spa is 385 gallons.  After 10 minutes of adding the DiChlor I was reading 10ppm of free chlorine.

Wonder how long I have to wait to get into the tub?

One tablespoon (three teaspoons) gets me close to 10 ppm, shock dose.

One to two teaspoons will get you 2-3 ppm.

[Steve]

  After 10 minutes of adding the DiChlor I was reading 10ppm of free chlorine.

Wonder how long I have to wait to get into the tub?

6-8 weeks...

  It's always a good idea to shock fresh water. In future, if you are wanting to use it right away, only add half that and shock after you're done using it. Leave it for a couple of hours is what I suggest...

Steve

[Steve]

Hey Guys

  It doesnt take 50 ppm to kill bio film!

  5 ppm maintained over a 24 to 48 hour period will get it.  Now I understand that most here do not want to wait the day or two but believe me 25 ppm for 1 hour and the bio film has no chance.  

  At work we regularly treat a newly commissioned or re-commissioned watermain to 30 to 35 ppm, wait 24 hours then dechlorinate and flush.  We then sample the water, wait 24 hours and then sample again.  I have never had a bad sample.  This is a watermain I'm talking about, thousands of gallon of water not a 300 gallon hot tub and I have seen some pretty nasty bio film.

  And for what its worth I have seen 15 to 20 ppm kill a lawn overnight

Well...that's my belief too with regards to the lawn but I didn't want to disrespect anyone. This summer I left a noodle in the pool and after I shocked the water, I pulled it out and left it on the grass. It burnt a perfect noodle shape in the grass and I would have shocked to about 10ppm.

Differing grass qualities is what we chalked it up to!