2005 Sundance Altamar, no lcd display HELP!!!

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 We get this all the time from electrical inspectors they believe the spa should have a neutral wire hooked up,which as squale has mentioned it trips the breaker and will not run.  I tell them to stick there fingers in there and poke around and see if it trips.  They never do?  

 Its all so the reason there is a big orange sticker on there that says attention electrician this is a 3 wire appliance.

But they still dont get it.

[squale]

well what I just don't like is the fact that the green wire from the spa is going to the grounding lug on the spa disconnect box.  Then I have 6/3 romex wire running from my Square D panel in my house to the spa disconnect box.  So the bare copper ground in the 6/3 connects to the same grounding lug as the green wire from the spa connects to.  Thus if there is a ground fault, power will need to go through the green wire from the spa, then through the bare copper wire in the 6/3 all the way back to my main panel in the house, then BACK to the spa disconnect box via the WHITE wire, and the white wire is hooked to the Neutral Bus in the spa disconnect panel.  The neutral bus is connected to the gfci via the pigtail.

It would seem more wise to me that the green ground wire from the spa be connected directly to the neutral bus on the spa disconnect panel INSTEAD of the ground lug inside that panel.  Because inside the 6/3 wire BOTH the white and the bare copper ground wire are both grounded inside the main panel.  Thus if you connect the green wire from the spa to EITHER the neutral bus OR the grounding lug inside the spa disconnect panel, they both should do the same thing because they both are grounded back at the main panel.  It would just seem that if you connect the green wire to the neutral bus and there was a ground fault that the gfci would trip QUICKER because it wouldn't have to go all the way back to the main panel first.

does any of this make sense?

[tony]

I didn't think Romex was the proper wire to use on a portable spa.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 I cant comment on the romex but the way its wired works, and if theres a problem it will trip quicker than you can say Sundance. Quit worrying about it and enjoy the spa,if you are that concerned about it call an electrician!  

You cant trust a bunch of ax murdering spa owners.  8-)

[Brewman]

There a a couple things wrong with using Romex cable for a spa whip.  One is the uninsulated ground.  NEC calls for an insulated ground.
And Romex run in a conduit is subject to de-rating.  Basically that means that the allowable amperage maximum could be less than the standard 60 amps.
 Really, it's just a code issue, and it may or may not be enforced that way in your area.  

[squale]

yes the hottub is working fine, but that's not my concern, my concern is WILL the GFI work fine if there is a ground fault?  That's the only real way for me to be certain everything is good..  That's why I was thinking of ways to enforce a ground fault and see if the breaker trips.

[Brewman]

My thoughts are that if you spa is working and your breaker isn't tripping, you have nothing to worry about.  These breakers are pretty sensitive and if you had anything amiss, you'd be tripping the GFI.  So I think you're good to go as far as that is concerned.  I don't know if there is enough expertise on this board to advise you on simulating a ground fault.  Maybe a pro would be useful, but you'd probably have to pay for their time.

Maybe have the local inspector pay a visit.  Most locale's require a permit and inspection for this type of thing, and a inspector would quickly let you know if you have your spa wired safely.

[squale]

Okay I took some pictures this morning I want you to check out. These are pictures of the wiring inside the Siemans 60amp GFI spa disconnect box. Here are links to the pictures...









As I said the green wire coming from the spa is connected to the GROUND bar inside the spa disconnect panel. The other side of this green wire is connected to the GROUND block inside the spa panel.

Inside the spa panel where the ground terminal is. I have a few different bare copper wires connected there. If I feel back to where these bare wires go, one of them goes to Pump 1, another one goes to I believe Pump 2 but I can't trace it all the way back because there is a wall where the wire goes through. Then another wire goes to what I believe is the blower. When I picked the spa up, there were 2 bare copper ground wires sticking out of either side of the spa. These bare copper wires are also attached to the ground bar inside the spa panel. I believe these ground wires might of gone to a grounding rod inside the ground. Now these 2 bare copper wires don't attach to anything, I just cut them short and wrapped them up and put them inside the spa panel to hide them.

Like I said, there are only 3 wires in total that come from the spa and hook into the Siemans 60amp GFI Spa Disconnect panel which is mounted on the wall 5 foot away from the spa. There is the green wire which is attached to the ground bar in the spa panel. This green wire attaches to the ground bar inside the spa disconnect box as you can see in the pictures. Then there are the 2 power wires which are straightforward how they hook up.

So does that help any with the pictures?

The connection of the 6/3 Romex at the main house's Square D box is correct, the two powers go to the 60amp NON-GFI breaker inside the panel, and the White wire AND bare copper wire both go to the grounding terminal inside the Square D box.

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Helps a lot!  And it looks fine and that is how its suppose to look,just like the 3 spas I have running on the showroom here!!  

 Relax it is fine!!!

[squale]

so I guess the bare copper wire that is connected to the ground terminal on the spa (I think TB3 it's called) and is just hanging out of the cabinent right now.. well I guess I can just disconnect that wire and remove it totally right?

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Yes, some inspectors here anyway require the spa to be grounded outside of the spa to  a grounding rod,they also want any metal within 5 ft of the spa grounded to the spa, porch lights,downspouts,window frames if metal.

 There is also a code here that states anything with in the space above the tub within 15ft must be grounded also