So which one of my dealers is lying to me?

[solo]

The Bullfrog dealer and the jacuzzi dealer havr told me that they would not have to charge me sales tax with a prescription.  The Hotsprings and the Sundance have told me that they would.  

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

lying : intentionally telling  an untruth.

To answer your question, it's unlikely either is lying to you. One (or perhaps both) simply doesn't fully understand the sales tax laws in your state.

Paranoid : Someone who believes anyone that tells them something incorrect is a lier and is out to get them  

[Brewman]

Okay, I guess he figured it all out, and the truth can now be told, once and for all.  The jig is up, as they say.

In truth, hot tubs only cost about $87.59.  After all, they're all just a box of pumps and some foam.  Unless you happen to sell rebranded spas out of a garage, near the greater Denver area,  in which case you don't get even the foam.    The dealers, along with all the regular members of this forum all have secret meetings to plan out how to rip off the public.  One way is to mark up the cost of a spa by 25,000%.  This is part of the hush money the spa dealers pay us forum members- to pretend this business is actually legitimate.  We're all in on the act.  Whew, it feels good to get this off my shoulders.  

 Another common ploy, one sanctioned by the IRS and every state that either charges sales tax, or income tax, is to intentionally LIE to the spa shoppers to further confuse them about the tax implications of purchasing a spa for medical reasons.  

   Near the secret place in the Nevada desert where all the captured UFO's are stored is a secret spa sellers school.  It is at this school where the spa dealers and potential sales people are taught to lie with a straight face by practicing over and over again in front of nuns and little old ladies.  
  Just remember this, since the secret is now out, I can tell this- Since the markup on this stuff is so high, there is really an infinite amount of padding in the retail price.  Remember to reject the first several dozen offers you get- those offers are for the weak and feeble minded.  
 If the dealer can come down $100, they certainly can come down another hundred, and so on until you find out that only suckers pay over $1000.  

I think now that the secrets are out, you should concentrate on getting one of those $15,000 spas that are now on sale for $5,000.  And you won't have any lying salesmen or ripoff brick and mortar dealerships to deal with.  They all want to take your money and leave you in the ditch, anyway.  
 These spas are sold direct out of some pole barn, cut out the middlemen, and pass the savings on to you.   Because there is no middeleman or dealership to lie to you, you don't have to worry about after the sale support.  But that's not important, since the same people who lied to you to sell you your spa will no doubt lie and cheat you on any needed service.  

And if that doesn't appeal to you, there is always our friend in Colorado.  I'm sure he'd love to have you as a customer.  

It become very apparent that your desire to own a spa, if you ever really even had one to begin with, has been replaced by your favorite past time- baiting the spa forum.  Hope you're having fun.  Remember to discount everyone's advice though, now that you know we're all lying to you.

Of course, I may be lying to you right now.  It's all part of the master plan, bwahahahahaha...............

[D.P. Roberts]

   Near the secret place in the Nevada desert where all the captured UFO's are stored is a secret spa sellers school.  It is at this school where the spa dealers and potential sales people are taught to lie with a straight face by practicing over and over again in front of nuns and little old ladies.

I think someone (either Doc or Bill) posted some pictures of the place a while back. It looked like an old abandoned mill, except there were some spas sitting out in the sun, waiting to be "shipped to Europe" or something. If there was a secret evil base for training shady spa salesman, that sure looked like it.

[Vanguard]

No, I ask the question to multiple dealers and got different answers.  So then one pointed me to an on-line resource.

But truthfully 104 degrees...I don't care what yopu think.  You have already proven yourself to be someone not to trust...

When I had my own service business, I called the state office with a sales tax question.  I called four times and got four different answers.  If the state tax employees can't get a single answer, I doubt dealers will all have the same answer.

I doubt your salespeople are intending to mislead you here.  Why the automatic assumption they are lying.  What benefit do they get for charging sales tax?

Give them some benefit of the doubt.

[D.P. Roberts]

We sell some food at my bookstore. Some of it is ALWAYS taxed, some is NEVER taxed. Some is taxed when it's consumed on the property, but not taxed if it's "to go". And the variable ones have to be memorized; they can't be programmed into the computer system, since the tax status changes depending on what the customer tells us. When we try to call our home office with tax questions, they're never sure since they have to deal with 50 different tax codes. Taxes are a pain.

[Brewman]

Lying- Intentionally telling someone something you know is not true with the intent to decieve.

Mis Informing-  Giving out information that you believe is or may be true, that turns out not to be.  Not intentional.

Learn the difference, and give people the benefit of a doubt, for crissakes.    

Businesses that have been around for a little while don't make it a policy to lie to their customers.  Nothing to be gained in that.

[hottubbin]

To the best of my knowledge, (I do business in VA also), currently the option is to have it reported on your taxes as a deduction.  I agree, that either dealer most likely isn't trying to lie to you but make the sale.  

Look at the bottom line price, regardless of how they get there and then compare the feaures and benefits of each tub and then make your decision based on all that information.  If they are comparable products then the pricing will be relatively close.  If not, you may be comparing "apples to oranges" which may not be the best approach on such a large ticket item.

[ndabunka]

I live in the state of VA.

Dealer A:  With your prescription for your hot tub I can save you the sales tax.  

Dealer B:  I must charge you sales tax by law.  Your prescription will allow you to deduct the purchase and sales tax from your taxes.

I qualified Dealer A.  I specifically asked him:  So you don't have to charge me sales tax and also you don't have to pay the state the sales tax on this sale, correct?  He said that I am correct.

The link below suggests that Dealer A is telling the truth and dealer B is not.  Can any of you dealers confirm?


http://www.tax.virginia.gov/web_pdfs/busForms/st13.pdf

They are ALL lying.  Unless you are immobilized without therapy, just pay the freaking taxes.  I get tired of people trying to "scam" the system.  And yes, you are trying to "get around" the liability of paying taxes.  IMHO this is just like the current "Handicap placard" scam where it seems that a certain group of people are all getting placards (but they don't have any REAL handicap) much less ANY mobility issues.  These approaches are REALLY REALLY a sad statement of the morals of this world.  Young people of this world should take guidance from their elders and follow COMMON SENSE.  

You would need a "prescription" issued by a doctor in order to have ANY chance to claim this.  So, unless you have some malady that has not yet been shared on this site, I do not believe that you would "qualify" as you do not appear to have any valid reasons to pursue this specific exemption.  Only about 3% of all Spa Buyers get the benefit of this deduction.  Then again, I would not want their related problems (even if it did save me $500 in taxes).

As far as taxes, you can usually claim certain items as "health care" and list them in that same 2% of income exclusion as an itemized component.  However, these STILL require substantiation/validation.

[solo]

1.  I do have a "malady" as you would say.  It is Ehler's Danlos Syndrome, a rare genetic connective tissue disroder and it is very painful.  Google it if you care to learn what I am going through.

2.  I do have a prescription from a medical doctor for the tub.

So I wouldn't quite classify myself as someone trying to abuse the system.  I didn't even know that I could save the taxes with my prescription until my Bullfrog rep told me.  

[Mendocino101]

Help me out, Bullfrog wins the wet test, the dealer seems to have given you good advice, why are you not buying a Bullfrog. They make a good tub, I think they are very well built and if I sold them would push that more than the Jet pacs which to me is a highly debatable benefit but they are a solid tub.

[solo]

Help me out, Bullfrog wins the wet test, the dealer seems to have given you good advice, why are you not buying a Bullfrog. They make a good tub, I think they are very well built and if I sold them would push that more than the Jet pacs which to me is a highly debatable benefit but they are a solid tub.

I stayed away from the Bullfrog initally because it seemed a little gimicky.  It was also the very first spa delaership I visited and I had sticker shock.  Now that I know what a spa costs, I went back to give him a second chance and to wet test.

I haven't ruled him out at all.   He has definitely made the cut.  Right now I'm trying out everyone's spas.  I will definitely be back to the Bullfrog dealership unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse.  

PS...The Bullforg dealer did 3 things that nobody else has done:

1.  He showed me this last months invoices (he volunteered, I didn't ask)
2.  He gave me the name of a customer that has a jetpack that I wanted to test but couldn't because he didn't have it in stock.
3.  He was the dealer that informed me that he could give me the break on the tax if I had a prescription from my doc.  I told him that I needed a spa because i had a degeneratice joint syndrome and he volunteered that info.

So all in all, I must say that he has impressed me.

[In Canada eh]

They make a good tub, I think they are very well built and if I sold them would push that more than the Jet pacs which to me is a highly debatable benefit but they are a solid tub.

Mendo

   That does it! I'm calling Bullfrog.  You've been in the closet long enough .  I'm sure they would love to have a established dealer in California.  Bullfrog should fit right in as a alternative to Marquis for your customers.

              Come on, I could really use some help around here

[solo]

I agree that it makes no sense for anyone to lie about this issue.  I just can't fathom a dealer not knowing the answer as hydrotherapy has been reccomended for so long by doctors for arthritis, fibromylagia, etc.  

A dealer can actually use this a selling feature.

The incosiistancy between dealers is perplexing.  I will call the VA Board of Taxation today to get an answer from them.

Maybe the dealers truly just don't know.  

[Bonibelle]

Solo, just throwing this out there...one former member of the forum purchased a tub hoping it would help with her very bad fibromylagia. Unfortunately, she ended up closing up the tub (not sure if she still even has it). Apparently it didn't provide the help for her situation that she had hoped.

I attended an arthritis seminar in the spring. The best recommendation that they gave was warm water exercise..so be sure if you are going to spend all this money, that you have enough room to move around and exercise. While the therapy feels wonderful, your over-all condition would best benefit from a good exercise program in warm water.

Just a thought....