OK...I am making an offer in the next week

[Spiderman]

That sales rep isn't high on ozonators and I don't think they are really needed, but it's just something I kind of want.  

I wonder how he/she would feel about it if it was standard like it is on the Sovereign  :-?

[tony]

I wonder how he/she would feel about it if it was standard like it is on the Sovereign  :-?

I believe Sundance offers three different CD ozonators for their spas now.  Biguanide users are generally advised to not use an ozonator.  Some people may just not want an ozonator.  I have removed mine and do not (at this time) intend to replace it.  Ozone is not a slam dunk and you shouldn't have to pay for it if you don't want it.

[hottubdan]

I believe Sundance offers three different CD ozonators for their spas now.  Biguanide users are generally advised to not use an ozonator.  Some people may just not want an ozonator.  I have removed mine and do not (at this time) intend to replace it.  Ozone is not a slam dunk and you shouldn't have to pay for it if you don't want it.

Tony,

The market has made ozone a slam dunk.  You are the exception that proves the rule.

I think Spiderman's question was more about salesmanship than ozone.

[tony]

Tony,

The market has made ozone a slam dunk.  You are the exception that proves the rule.

I think Spiderman's question was more about salesmanship than ozone.

I agree.  The market has made ozone a slam dunk.  Its all fed by the no maintenance/no sanitizer spa and that is salesmanship.  

[Vanguard]

Need to also keep in mind, HSS are only 50 Amps.  60 Amps draws a lot more power and many homes do not have the space for 60 Amps, so they have to have an electrician add another panel.

One of the reasons HSS splits the breakers is to put the heater on one breaker and the pumps on another breaker.  That way, if, for some reason, the heater causes a breaker to trip, the pump will still work.  This is beneficial in keeping the water circulating until the trip is discovered.  You can imagine some people wouldn't discover their breaker had tripped for days and then come out to water that has just been sitting.

It also helps in cold climates.  The water will still move in the spa and not freeze.

[Vinny]

Need to also keep in mind, HSS are only 50 Amps.  60 Amps draws a lot more power and many homes do not have the space for 60 Amps, so they have to have an electrician add another panel.

One of the reasons HSS splits the breakers is to put the heater on one breaker and the pumps on another breaker.  That way, if, for some reason, the heater causes a breaker to trip, the pump will still work.  This is beneficial in keeping the water circulating until the trip is discovered.  You can imagine some people wouldn't discover their breaker had tripped for days and then come out to water that has just been sitting.

It also helps in cold climates.  The water will still move in the spa and not freeze.

I always listen for the hum of the circ pump whenever I put my dog out in the morning ... a reassuring sound.

[tony]

Need to also keep in mind, HSS are only 50 Amps.  60 Amps draws a lot more power and many homes do not have the space for 60 Amps, so they have to have an electrician add another panel.

One of the reasons HSS splits the breakers is to put the heater on one breaker and the pumps on another breaker.  That way, if, for some reason, the heater causes a breaker to trip, the pump will still work.  This is beneficial in keeping the water circulating until the trip is discovered.  You can imagine some people wouldn't discover their breaker had tripped for days and then come out to water that has just been sitting.

It also helps in cold climates.  The water will still move in the spa and not freeze.

Doesn't HotSpring split their 120 and 240 through the breaker?

[Vinny]

I agree.  The market has made ozone a slam dunk.  Its all fed by the no maintenance/no sanitizer spa and that is salesmanship.  

Although I'm not 100% sold on ozone, I do think it does a little somethng.  When I had my ozone running 24/7 I found I got an extra day of clear water. Clear water is not indicative of a bacteria free tub but it must have been doing something. I usually run my ozonator about 8 hours a day.

My tub will be 3 YO next June and I am planning on adding a stronger ozonator along with a length of tubing (14 to 20 feet) to act as a contact chamber.  I'm thinking and maybe wrongly so that if the low output ozonator and the 10 feet (?) of tubing that is used now does a little something that a higher output ozonator with 24 to 30 feet of tubing to act as a contact chamber may do a little bit more.

I am amazed at how people report different results on how ozone works for them. I would like to see if more ozone plus more contact time will result in longer lasting water between doses.

If it doesn't do anything, I'll be out $200 for the experiment. If it does do something, I'll still be out $200 but I satisfied my curiosity.

I am also amazed that the industry is promoting how well ozone works, it's even spreading into the pool industry now. Maybe one day ozone can be seen as a primary sanitizer/oxidizer but we're noit there yet.

[loosenupspas]

The HS GFGI breaker is an unusual animal, and unqiue to HS.  So if it fails, and it will, you have to return to HS and purchase a new one.  The proper line of questioning, I guess, would be what is the replacement cost of the special HS GFCI breaker?  Remember this.....nothing is thrown in for free.  The off the shelve breaker is easy to repair, just go to HD and pick it up.  All GFCI breakers have a life span.  I wouldn't buy a hot tub based on whether it includes a breaker.....look much more deeply at the product, what do you want in a tub?  Good Luck....Tom

[Mendocino101]

If you want your deal to go real smooth and with no hassle, you say the dealer offered you a price of 6995.00 telling him you will not pay a penny more than 7500.00 plus tax it will make things much better and easier....

[Jacuzzi Jim]

Need to also keep in mind, HSS are only 50 Amps.  60 Amps draws a lot more power and many homes do not have the space for 60 Amps, so they have to have an electrician add another panel.

One of the reasons HSS splits the breakers is to put the heater on one breaker and the pumps on another breaker.  That way, if, for some reason, the heater causes a breaker to trip, the pump will still work.  This is beneficial in keeping the water circulating until the trip is discovered.  You can imagine some people wouldn't discover their breaker had tripped for days and then come out to water that has just been sitting.

It also helps in cold climates.  The water will still move in the spa and not freeze.

 You can hook just about any spa on 50 amps and it will run fine.  Also not that it matters much HS spas use some 110v components where as Sundance and Jacuzzi do not in the upper lines.

[ndabunka]

Although I'm not 100% sold on ozone, I do think it does a little something....
 I'm thinking and maybe wrongly so that if the low output ozonator and the 10 feet (?) of tubing that is used now does a little something that a higher output ozonator with 24 to 30 feet of tubing to act as a contact chamber may do a little bit more.

If it doesn't do anything, I'll be out $200 for the experiment. If it does do something, I'll still be out $200 but I satisfied my curiosity.

Do some more research before wasting the $200.  Mfg's have put a fair amount of research into this and (most likely) your tub is set up optimally already.  At one time there was a lot of discussion on this and the other boards about "contact chambers" but the result was that this was mostly "market-techure" rather than anything substantial.  Ozone is a short-life element and requires exposure to a large amount of water in order to be effective.  Most restrictive "chambers" hold too little water to be effective for treating an entire tub.  But don't take my word for it, due more research online.

[hottubdan]

The HS GFGI breaker is an unusual animal, and unqiue to HS.  So if it fails, and it will, you have to return to HS and purchase a new one.  The proper line of questioning, I guess, would be what is the replacement cost of the special HS GFCI breaker?  Remember this.....nothing is thrown in for free.  The off the shelve breaker is easy to repair, just go to HD and pick it up.  All GFCI breakers have a life span.  I wouldn't buy a hot tub based on whether it includes a breaker.....look much more deeply at the product, what do you want in a tub?  Good Luck....Tom

The breakers are standard GE or Square D GFCI breakers.

[Vinny]

Do some more research before wasting the $200.  Mfg's have put a fair amount of research into this and (most likely) your tub is set up optimally already.  At one time there was a lot of discussion on this and the other boards about "contact chambers" but the result was that this was mostly "market-techure" rather than anything substantial.  Ozone is a short-life element and requires exposure to a large amount of water in order to be effective.  Most restrictive "chambers" hold too little water to be effective for treating an entire tub.  But don't take my word for it, due more research online.

I was fence sitting on this and my tub has about 10' of tubing based on my limited calculation on where the ozone injector is and where the exit port for the circ pump is. I remember Chas saying how he upgrades the older HS ozonators to current levels and adds a 14' length of tubing to eliminate off gassing. I was basing my upgrade on this. My tub came with the contact chamber option and I didn't get it because the dealer and I thought it was a waste of money.

I have not been able to find any hard evidence of spa ozonators, I only find info on drinking water ozonators at the treatment plant levels. I do know they are not the same as far as technique and effectiveness. Please point me in the right direction to the spa info.

My understanding is the contact chamber is there to give ozone a chance to be absorbed even if it only lasts 22 seconds in over 100º water. My idea is if an ozone molecule either bumps into or gets electrically attracted to something during it's travel in the "contact chamber" that it will be more effective than in the open vastness of the tub. 22 seconds is not a long time I know but I have a high rate circ pump and it moves a fair amount of water so ozone would be introduced to "a lot of" water in a 24' contact tube - certainly not the whole tub's volume.

I was going to start a more in depth discussion closer to the time for me to actually do it. Maybe I'll just scap the idea  ... I'll give it more thought.

[D.P. Roberts]

I know ozonators are very popular in Europe, for pools if not for spas (from what I've read spas are just starting to catch on over there). Some manufacturers have stated that many companies in Europe started using ozone in their water supplies when Americans started using chlorine, so they have a lot more experience with it. I also read that 300,000 pools in Europe use ozone for their primary sanitizer. There are stories that Olympic swimming teams from Europe have been surprised to come to the states and refused to swim in our chlorine-infested waters, as they just weren't used to the smell, the eye-burning chemicals, etc. So, I have no idea how true these stories are, but the point is that ozone CAN be an effective primary sanitizer. Whether North American hot tub companies have created effective ozonators- or whether it's even possible on such a small scale- is a different question.


I would really like to see a manufacturer do a clean-sheet design of an ozone-based spa. It might require a different shell (no pillows, like Marquis), or a special hard cover, or even different plumbing (ozone circulating through the entire pump system, instead of just the circ pump). It would be expensive to design such a thing, but I think they'd have a great seller on their hands.