Mike Dolder

[spaman--]

Anyone ever heard of him? I received a fax from him regarding refurbished spas @ $1200. When I call the 866 number a call center answers the phone and takes messages for the business that the operator says is located in Plano Tx. I am wondering why they can't answer their own phones. Does he have something to hide? Could he be related to one of our infamous scam artists that are based out of Tx? The whole thing just seems fishy to me. See for your self @ http://Mikedolder.com.  :-?

[Big_Dog]

Really fishy!

[wmccall]

Registrant:
   Mike Dolder
   4420 castle glen
   plano, Texas 75093
   United States

   Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
   Domain Name: MIKEDOLDER.COM
      Created on: 01-Dec-06
      Expires on: 01-Dec-08
      Last Updated on: 11-Aug-07

   Administrative Contact:
      Dolder, Mike  cas@actinc2000.com
      4420 castle glen
      plano, Texas 75093
      United States
      (972) 758-7500

   Technical Contact:
      Dolder, Mike  cas@actinc2000.com
      4420 castle glen
      plano, Texas 75093
      United States
      (972) 758-7500

[WannaSoakNow]

Gosh, I hate to say this...but, we use a call center to answer our calls when we are on the phone with a client. The call center is based in AK. At times our calls, with a client, can go on for hours. After seeing the way it was reacted to being a possible scam... leaves me wondering if we should consider re-thinking our call pick-up? Comment's welcome, as I'll pass them on to my boss.

If I may ask, (for clarification purposes)
1. Is it because the link opens to "KEYS SPA"S" that you all may feel it's a scam?
2. Or, is it because the call's are answered by an answering service i.e. call center?
3. Or, is there something I am not following here, i.e. a person connected to the forum that is less than honest?

Thanks, (no ax to grind here)

[Dekken Tubb]

Web site seems to be minimal (and some of the links don't seem to work properly) which suggests to me that the site was put together on a shoestring budget.  He (is/was) affiliated with Keys Backyard at some point...If he left to strike out on his own, this would explain the separate site.

Gotta love the "add to cart" button next to the spa images.  You have to wonder how many people buy a spa this way.    Never made sense to me.

[Brewman]

Buying a spa sight unseen without a physical dealer makes absolutely no sense to me.  Not for something like this.

[Tom]

Buying a spa sight unseen without a physical dealer makes absolutely no sense to me.  Not for something like this.

Many times, I have read a dealer comment on a forum, "Would you buy a car without taking it for a test drive?"

The answer is a surprising Yes.  Many people do just that.   A fellow I met at a family dinner last month is an internet car salesman for Porsche.  He works out of a dealership, but his 'territory' is internet sales.  He sets up the site, he handles queries, he closes deals with customers all unseen.  "People research online for the model they want, then find the best price," he told me.  "They know our product and our dealership. they both have well-established reputations."  He expected that soon the dealership would sell more cars online than they sold off the lot.

The debut issue of SpaRetailer Magazine points out that, more and more, people are researching hot tubs online.  They find models that look interesting, then check them out physically. For this reason, the magazine argues that an online presence is vital, not only for the manufacturer, but also for the retailer.

The need for a physical examination (and wet test) of a hot tub are still vital.  IMO, there are three solid reasons against purchasing online:

1. As one person put it in SpaRetailer, "Anybody...can post whatever they want, and it's not always true."   The doubts expressed in this thread show how strong this impression is.

2. While some long-running manufacturers of 15 to 35 years duration may have a reputation approaching that of Porsche, the 'used car salesman' reputation of the hot tub industry means that people may not yet have the confidence to buy online in signifcant numbers.
 
3. You know that a car seat will be adjustable and can be made to fit most drivers and front passengers (back seat passengers are still out of luck for the most part) so you have a chance of a good fit. This is not yet the case for hot tubs, even though we design our spas to fit a variety of  body types.  So you still really need to wet test to ensure  fit and comfort.

Given those three limits, it seems to me that a person of average size has a reasonable chance in the online (or box store) spa lottery.  But if you can't do a wet test, it is still a lottery.

That's my opinion, FWIW.   I may change it tomorrow if faced with new information.   

[hottubdan]

However, most dealers report most spas bought in showrooms are bought without wet tests.  I don't know of any study, do you Tom, but, that is the anecdotal evidence.

They do, however, have a chance to dry test and meet flesh and blood people who will care for them.

Back to your car example.  How many of those people test drive at a dealership, then buy online for what think consdider ease and perceived savings?

[Cyn]

Certainly most people that buy cars on-line have driven the car at a local dealer and with cars you can get your car serviced easily at a dealer that did not sell you the car...not so with all hot tubs.  

I do feel that surprisingly not all consumers use the internet to start their purchases.  I think that it might never occur to a lot of people to wet test.  At one place that we looked they had several brands of hot tubs but were pushing one brand in particular and they had several of those tubs ready for a wet test and yet the salesman never mentioned wet testing to us.  People may feel they are filled for 'show' and in this case the only test tubs were the brand that the dealer was pushing for whatever reason, profit margine, etc.  

[Spatech_tuo]

Given those three limits, it seems to me that a person of average size has a reasonable chance in the online (or box store) spa lottery.  But if you can't do a wet test, it is still a lottery.

"A person of average size having reasonable chance of getting a spa that they feel comfortable in by going the on-line lottery route?" Sure, there is a reasonable chance.

"A reasonable chance of getting a quality spa that way?" This is the real gamble.


There are a handful (or two) of spa companies out there that sell a quality brand where I could possibly see myself buyng on-line (SD/Jac, HS/Caldera, Marquis, D1, Arctic, Artesian, Coleman, etc.). The problem is they're not the ones selling spas on-line.

On-line spa purchasers often equate price with value when rolling the dice or get a false sense of security from a spec sheet (aka "looks the same on paper as what the other guys have"). Sometimes they know it's a crapshoot but decide to take a shot for obviou$ reasons.

I'd feel MUCH more comfortable knowing what I'm getting quality-wise if I buy a Mazda, Honda, Chevy, Toyota, BMW on-line versus the spa you buy on-line which is much more of an unknown.

[Brewman]

Exactly my point.  The spas I'd most likely trust aren't sold online.

The ones that are?  Less know or unknown brands.  You pay all your money up front, and won't know if you like the thing till it's sitting in your backyard?
 Then there is the return hassle if you decide you hate it after all.  They have your money.  You have the spa.  Good luck changing that.
Then there is the possible problem with getting service.
No thanks.  


 And it's not all about wet testing, as important as I think that step is in the process.  I want to see the spa in person.  Look at the construction quality, work the controls, see the jets in action, etc...   Call it kicking the tires.  

I bet CYA is spot on.  Many people who buy their cars online at least stopped at a dealership to look at one in person.  If not test drive it, at least see it for real.  

[thearm]

Many times, I have read a dealer comment on a forum, "Would you buy a car without taking it for a test drive?"

The answer is a surprising Yes.  Many people do just that.  


I have to agree here with Tom. The last 4 cars I have shopped and researched on line and then bought. Never did a test drive on any of them. As I have stated before there are a lot of people that are very happy with what most people on this site would consider a lesser quailty tub bought online or a big box store. You really don't miss what you have never had and with nothing to compare with they are satisfied. You know what they say, Ignorance is bliss

[Whatley]

Many times, I have read a dealer comment on a forum, "Would you buy a car without taking it for a test drive?"

The answer is a surprising Yes.  Many people do just that.

Comparing online car shopping to online tub shopping isn't exactly apples to apples.  You buy a car from dealer A in Florida then take it home to Oregon, your local dealer is bound by his dealer contract to perform warranty work on that car.  This I'm not so sure would be the case in a tub.

There's a little more safety buying a car site unseen than a tub in my opinion.