How to lower Alk?

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Ah yes, it's me AGAIN. I haven't had chemical problems all sumer because IT'S BEEN TO *&$% HOT AND HUMID TO USE THE HOTTUB!!!  
Ok..I have vented...feel better now. Anyway, I wanted to use the tub yesterday, but the ph and alk were low, so I added some baking soda. (There was no soda ash in this town to be found). I got my ph up to 7.7, but, ummmm my alk went to around 250...oops?  I don't seem to have any spa down in my arsenal of chemicals, so I will have to buy some online. Any suggestions for lowering alk sooner? I see I have room to add fresh water...might that help? I kinda hate to totally change my water right now.....but will if I need to. I want to soak, but afraid of the high alk...I don't want to get a rash or anything..
Thanks,  MLG

[Chad]

Jo,

250 ppm is awful high so if you have sensitive skin, which I think you do, you're doing the right thing and waiting until you get it down. Sodium bisulfate is what's used to lower alkalinity. It will however lower the pH as well, so once you get alk in range you may need to adjust pH with soda ash to compensate. Remember to add small doses at a time over an extended period as opposed to one huge dose. Do you have any sodium bisulfate and have you had any luck finding soda ash yet?

Chad

[Vinny]

I have used clear vinegar to lower the alk and PH.

Do you know what the original PH & alk rading were? It seems that the PH is awefully low for an alk reading like that. Baking soda has a PH of 8.4. I use baking soda all the time but it has never gotten the alk that high

In the pool I use borax to raise the PH without rasing the alk and have used it in a pinch in the spa, I wouldn't make it a habit - Walmart sells pool stuff.

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Thanks you 2. I think my readings were ph7.0 and alk80.  I just wanted to raise the ph...but could not find any soda ash in town. I had no idea the baking soda would increase my alk so much. It's now back to being hot and sticky, so I don't wanna go tubbing anymore anyway.  
The alk might not really be that high now that I think about it....I used the AquaChek meter. I need to sell that thing....I don't like it!
I will let the tub sit for a few days and recheck it again. My window of tubbing opportunity has passed anyway.
Chad...Is there a common name for sodium bisulfate or is that a spa store item?
I know Arm & Hammer washing soda is soda ash...right?
Thanks,  Jo

[Chad]

It's packaged as spa down or ph down typically.

[Vinny]

If you want to use grocery store stuff - Borax is what you want. "20 mule team borax". Washing soda will raise the alkalinity as well.

I have reservations about using grocery store bought stuff in a spa except for baking soda. I can imagine the problem if the spa has a problem and you say you used borax, bleach or vinegar in the spa ... there goes the warranty!

I think I would stick with "spa stuff" until the warranty expires.

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Hi Vinny, I bought my tub used, so I don't have a warranty. I know to raise ph AND alk...I can use Baking soda. For just the Ph...I could use Soda ash.  What is Borax for? I have 20 mule team Borax here....but it's not soda ash, is it?

[tony]

Hi Vinny, I bought my tub used, so I don't have a warranty. I know to raise ph AND alk...I can use Baking soda. For just the Ph...I could use Soda ash.  What is Borax for? I have 20 mule team Borax here....but it's not soda ash, is it?

Borax is not soda ash, but will raise pH without pulling up TA.  It works well.  Baking soda is the exact same thing as Alk Up or Spa Up.  The only difference is the package.

[Vinny]

Borax raises the PH without affecting the alkalinity.

No it's not soda ash but it's close chemically to it. There is a website for pools that have people using bleach for chlorine, borax for PH up and baking soda for pool store alkalinity increaser ... baking soda. Arm and Hammer washing soda is a similar product chemically to baking soda and will increase both PH and alkalinity. It's funny that I use both in my pool but the PH in my pool's water doesn't budge at all with adding baking soda and it swings it higher in the tub.

A while back there was a discussion about using pool store bought baking soda vs grocery store baking soda and it was discussed and argued (by me) that it is the same but way cheaper. Sodium bicard is sodium bicard.

If you REALLY want to get adventurous give bleach a try! I had a discussion about bleach, stabilizer (CYA) and the killing effects with higher CYA and some one there who seems to know a lot about chemistry gave me a lesson where the lessons of Vermonter were left off. But that's another discussion.

[tony]

If you REALLY want to get adventurous give bleach a try! I had a discussion about bleach, stabilizer (CYA) and the killing effects with higher CYA and some one there who seems to know a lot about chemistry gave me a lesson where the lessons of Vermonter were left off. But that's another discussion.

I keep a low level of free chlorine with an 8 inch trichlor puck in a feeder in the pool and suppliment with bleach or liquid chlorine a couple of times a week.  I use dichlor after soaking in my spa and bleach or liquid chlorine when I want to bring the free chlorine up to give a good sanitizing or when I want to raise pH.

[MostlyLurkingGal]

No No Vinny.....do NOT confuse me more by suggesting bleach!!!

Ok...just so I get this correct....
20 Mule team borax to increase Ph.
Baking Soda to increase Ph and Alk.
Soda Ash also to increase Ph and Alk.
What just increases Alk?

[Vinny]

I keep a low level of free chlorine with an 8 inch trichlor puck in a feeder in the pool and suppliment with bleach or liquid chlorine a couple of times a week.  I use dichlor after soaking in my spa and bleach or liquid chlorine when I want to bring the free chlorine up to give a good sanitizing or when I want to raise pH.

The discussion was to use dichlor the first week of a fresh fill then use bleach. It has to do with keeping CYA low (about 20).

I know it probably is easy but putting in 2 or 3 teaspoons is much more easier! Especially in the winter!!!!!

[Vinny]

No No Vinny.....do NOT confuse me more by suggesting bleach!!!

Ok...just so I get this correct....
20 Mule team borax to increase Ph.
Baking Soda to increase Ph and Alk.
Soda Ash also to increase Ph and Alk.
What just increases Alk?

Everything you mention is correct, don't forget washing soda for PH and alkalinity increasing too.

NOTHING!!! Baking soda in a pool only raises the alkalinity, but it raises both in a spa.

I think the thing to do is lower both PH and alkalinity with acid and then raise it with baking soda ... but I don't know.

[MostlyLurkingGal]

Everything you mention is correct, don't forget washing soda for PH and alkalinity increasing too.

NOTHING!!! Baking soda in a pool only raises the alkalinity, but it raises both in a spa.

I think the thing to do is lower both PH and alkalinity with acid and then raise it with baking soda ... but I don't know.


Ok...Thanks Vinny. I would have just used my borax had I known this...I appreciate the info!