cloudy water

[exit109gal]

I got my hot spot tub  (sundance) about a month ago. They provided brillance chemicals and I had a lot of questions and got some help here on this site, I thought I was doing ok. I don't have bromine, they gave me chlorine instead.
This past week the levels were real low and the water was cloudy. I took the water to be tested and have put the required chemicals in, an awful lot it seemed. BUT the water is still cloudy.
My dealer does not seem real knowledgeable in this area. The young man who tests doesn't seem to know very much nor do the other people there.
thanks for any suggestions
Pat

[Renee]

I'm a newbie as well, but from all the posts I've read, they will tell you to dump your water after a month of being a new owner and start over.  Another common suggestion is to not "over-care" for your water.  But like I said, at this point, I would change your water and go from there.
--renee

[Vinny]

First, as renee said - do a dump and refill but before you do - what are the numbers on the PH, Alkalinity & Calcium. Also hit the tub hard with chlorine before your dump.

How were you using the chlorine? The recommended way of using it is to get a 3 PPM reading of free chlorine 20 minutes after yo put it in. You can add before or after. I personally do it after but if you plan on having a party you should put it in before, maybe during and then after as well depending on the amount of people using the tub. You also need to put chlorine in when your not using the tub. Some people can go longer than others, I only get about 2 days before my tub clouds up.

The newbie rule really works but there is an actual formula to know when to change the water:

     # of days = (1/3  volume of tub)/( max # of daily bathers)

SO with the new tub syndrome (and even an old tub syndrome with a lot of people) using it every day.

with a 300 gallon tub and 1 bather: 1/3 x 300 = 100 ... 100/1 = 100 days
with a 300 gallon tub and 2 bathers: 100/2 = 50 days
with a family of 4 ...   100/4 = 25 days

If you calcium levels are very high it will cloud the water as well. As TDS (Total Disolved Solids) raises the water become less managable as well.

Please post numbers!

[exit109gal]

thanks for the reply
there have not been a lot of people, mostly me, couple of times 2 people and once 3.
when i took the water on thur the numbers were very low
ph was 7.1
alkalinity 73, calcium harness 147 and sanitizer (chlorine) was 0
not sure why i had been checking it and it wasn't over used
it has been very hot here thou.don't know if that has any effect

SO...i added all the chemicals thur and fri and didn't use the tub
this morning it is still cloudy so I took another sample
(the store guy is probably tired of seeing me walk in)

now everything is high
alkalinity 151
total chlorine4.2
free chlorine 4.0
combined chlorine 0.2  
not sure why it is all broken down in this report and wasn't on thursday

so he said to buy a clarifier for the cloudy water which i did and added 3/4  oz this morning and have been running the tub

it looks better than on thursday but still not clear like it should be

I also have difficulty with the test strips and the colors i look at it and it could be light blue or maybe medium

I have wanted a spa for years and the reason (besides money) that I never got one was I knew the chemical stuff would be a challenge.

I really apprciate your replies.
pat

[Chad]

Pat,

A pH reading of 7.1ppm and an alkalinity reading of 72ppm  really isn't that bad. A small dose of baking soda would have put you right in line. Next time before dosing with + and - chems, post your readings here first and we'll be happy to tell you exactly how much to add at a time.
If you're having trouble reading your test strips don't be discouraged as almost everybody does. If you want more accurate results with easier clarifacation buy a Taylor k-2005 test kit. They run about $50 and really take the guest work out of water chemistry maintenance.
As far as your cloudy water problem goes, I would make sure your filters are thouroughly cleaned and then superchlorinate with a 10 ppm dose of dichlor. That should clear it up by tomarrow.  

Btw, your Calcium Hardness level is fine.

[tony]

thanks for the reply
there have not been a lot of people, mostly me, couple of times 2 people and once 3.
when i took the water on thur the numbers were very low
ph was 7.1
alkalinity 73, calcium harness 147 and sanitizer (chlorine) was 0
not sure why i had been checking it and it wasn't over used
it has been very hot here thou.don't know if that has any effect

SO...i added all the chemicals thur and fri and didn't use the tub
this morning it is still cloudy so I took another sample
(the store guy is probably tired of seeing me walk in)

now everything is high
alkalinity 151
total chlorine4.2
free chlorine 4.0
combined chlorine 0.2  
not sure why it is all broken down in this report and wasn't on thursday

so he said to buy a clarifier for the cloudy water which i did and added 3/4  oz this morning and have been running the tub

it looks better than on thursday but still not clear like it should be

I also have difficulty with the test strips and the colors i look at it and it could be light blue or maybe medium

I have wanted a spa for years and the reason (besides money) that I never got one was I knew the chemical stuff would be a challenge.

I really apprciate your replies.
pat

Cloudy water takes a little time to clear.  Don't worry, you will get the chemistry down.  We have all been through this when new to tubbing.  The key to adding chemicals is take little steps.  It is easier to add a little twice than to try to go backwards, especially when adjusting pH.  Your original readings were not too far off.  They just needed tweaking.  You want your pH to read between 7.2 and 7.8 with 7.4 to 7.6 being a good target.  TA aka alkalinity, should be between 80 and 120.  I like to keep mine at 80 because my pH stays more stable there, but your water may be different.  Your calcium hardness is perfect at 143.  Don't let anyone talk you into changing that.  To raise pH and TA, you dealer must have given you something like pH up or spa up or alk up.  You can also use baking soda.  To lower same, there must be a pH down, spa down or alk down.  Use a tablespoon at a time and wait a little and retest until you are in the correct range.  Right now your TA is a little high, but I would concentrate on getting your pH into range.

Cloudy water is caused by too little sanitizer, most of the time.  Each time after use, add enough chlorine to get to at least 3ppm.  On days you don't use the tub, add chlorine as if you did use it.  Sanitizing and then filtering will clear the water, but it takes time for your filter to work.  Adding a little clarifier will help, but don't overdo because it can cause as many problems as it helps.

With you combined chlorine at .2 (total chlorine minus free chlorine), it is time to shock your spa.  I don't know if you have done that yet, but it should be done weekly.  You probably have a product called non chlorine shock.  Add this according to instructions and leave cover off for twenty minutes.

Many of us here use a good test kit because we can't read the test strips or just want more accurate information regarding our water.  Check out the FAQ section of the forum at www.rhtubs.com, especially Dichlor dosing, Vermonter style and Northman's routine.  Educating youself will take you a long way.  Good luck and be patient.

[Chad]

now everything is high
alkalinity 151
total chlorine4.2
free chlorine 4.0
combined chlorine 0.2  

What's your pH at now? If your FC is still at 4, I'd wait till it comes down a bit(until it's about 1ppm) and then test as higher levels of FC can skew pH readings.

[Vinny]

Please get a kit! The Taylor K-2005 is what most people use and it has everyting you need. Unless the dealer uses the drop test method (kit) don't trust the readings. If the machine was not calibrated or calibrated wrongly it may be giving the wrong info.

You're getting great advice!

The combined chlorine reading means that the chlorine was used up killing something which is why you have a cloudy tub.

I would use MPS (non chlorine shock) as a shock and see what happens. Sometimes you need some oxidizer to burn up whatever. Also, clean the filters as mentioned, clarifier binds stuff together and then the filter traps it ... eventually the filter will give it up - it has happened to me.

[exit109gal]

Thank you all for your replies. Appreciate the help.
I added the clarifier and the water is much better, last night pretty clear.
Someone said I should shock the spa. i do not have any product called shock. So I guess I haven't done that yet.
I will look into the test kit you recommended but not right now (finances do not permit it at this point)
Pat

[Vinny]

There are 2 ways to shock - MPS and chlorine.

Since you used clarifier, clean the fillters.

Get the chlorine level to 10x the combined chlorine (CC) reading - this is a shock dose. If you have 0 CC then put enough chlorine for 10 PPM. This gives extra chlorine to kill resistant bacteria.

[96SC]

Pat/exit 109

This link http:// http://www.d1spas.com/images/documents/01513-092ERevB-WaterCareGuideExportScreen.pdf doesn't address your cloudy problem is gives you information that may be helpful down the road.  It is geared towards D1 spas but you can ignore the stuff that doesn't apply to you.

Hope it is of some help.

[hottubdan]

Vinny mentioned cleaning the filters after the clarifier use.  That was the first mention of filters I saw.

Clean your filter at least once a month, maybe more often by hosing them off.  Chemically clean 3 to 4 times a year.

Typically manufacturers recommend chemically cleaning once a month.  Most folks I know are on a regime similar to what I suggest.  However, you cannot overclean a filter.

Others may have other suggestions regarding how often or how to clean filter.  Key is to do it!

[hottubdan]

By the way, the Hot Spot is by Hot Spring, not Sundance.

[tony]

Vinny mentioned cleaning the filters after the clarifier use.  That was the first mention of filters I saw.

Clean your filter at least once a month, maybe more often by hosing them off.  Chemically clean 3 to 4 times a year.

Typically manufacturers recommend chemically cleaning once a month.  Most folks I know are on a regime similar to what I suggest.  However, you cannot overclean a filter.

Others may have other suggestions regarding how often or how to clean filter.  Key is to do it!

I chemically clean my filters once per month.  For normal use this generally suffices....but....during kid season, I also rinse them off weekly.  Nasty.

[loosenupspas]

Clean your filter.....or buy a fresh filter and switch it out.  Keep one clean and the other in the tub.  Briliance is a fine chemical line, easy to administer, but the best way to rid yourself of cloudness is use a cleaned filter.  Don't open the floater too far or bromine will melt too quickly and cloud up the water.  Open the floater to the minimum to start and open it farther as time goes on.  Drian it if the filter switch doesn't do it for you.....Tom