Recently visited a scary place ...

[Vinny]

I was (maybe still am) having problems with my pool and went onto one of the pool forums around. It was started by people who were at the first pool forum I was part of. They believe that all you need for a crystal clear pool is bleach, borax and baking soda (for the most part) [BBB]. Unfortunately when I went on the server was down for posting and I went to the original forum for advice.

Well, while I was there I saw a fellow spa person who was in need of help so I did what I try to do ... help. I waited till the server was back up and posted some help there. Unfortunately, they (the moderators) have drank the BBB koolaid that nothing what I said was correct. According to them, we (non bleach users) are in bad water. I have in the past asked about using bleach here and it was discussed why and the facts were pretty good of why not to use bleach.

I have had the good fortune of being on Doc's site when Vermonter posted there a lot and got a very good education on water care and how to keep the tub biologically safe. Vermonter, for those of you who don't know is a microbiologist - who better to learn from. As they were touting that CYA over 30 gives hot tub itch because of the ineffectiveness of chlorine, I informed them how a microbiologist tested his own tub and regardless of when he tested it based on his water's age and rising CYA (well over 30) - it was safe ... they pooh poohed it off.

They disregarded TDS but said salt in the tub is OK but nobody would get their tub to the point that salt could be a problem. They kept saying that using bleach is PH neutral. When I asked how something with only 6% active ingredient and 94% inert can be PH neutral (bleach has a PH of 13) I didn't get a straight answer.

I broke off the discussion today because I wasn't changing my mind on how to run a tub and obviously they weren't either.

My point here is as you surf the net - keep an eye on what your being told. I do use the BBB method for my pool but it is 13,000 gallons and gets 1/4 of it's water replaced every season - winter in NJ.

Moderators - you can move this or delete this but I put this here so people can see that they get some good info here!

Thanks!

Vinny

[Richs100]

Sometimes, it does amaze me how the internet can "dumb you down" when you are looking for information or help.  I guess if we see something in writing or on a well laid out webpage, we tend to accept it.  There is a certain internet spa rebrander who has an extensive site full of information.  Some of it is good, some of it is just plain wrong, but most of it is geared toward attacking the major hot tub manufacturers and trying to sell his "custom built" tub to innocent victims who take a wrong turn on the world wide web and wind up at his site. (You get three guesses who, and the first two don't count).  

When I first stumbled across his site and started reading it, I really thought he made sense and had a unique way of approaching the construction of a spa.  But the deeper I looked, I realized something was amiss.  It took me some time to realize what was actually going on.  It kinda freaked me out and taught me to always take a second look at what you find on the web.  Maybe a good rule of thumb is to try to confirm the information you find on the web on a couple of other websites before you accept it.  Easy to say, but may be hard to apply in practice.

[Pathfinder]

Vinny, I know exactly what you're talking about.  If you dont use bleach you are wrong, every post also includes "if you ad this your CYA will raise then you have to drain". There's a few on the other spa forum that jump in and start refer to their charts and graphs and theories. But when a person who deals with those issues on a daily basis jumps in with advice that will work but differs, all hell brakes loose.   I find some advice good if you can read through all the technical jargon that doesnt need to be mentioned. Other postings from the Bleach group I find ramble on and confuse the poor person with the problem even more.

Is it true though that to join the new board you have to send a pic of yourself taking a shot of Bleach straight from the jug?

[Vinny]

Rich,

That site was one of the first sites I found also and I agree, I was thinking great. But I also found Doc's site as well around the same time. I lurked on Doc's site and read up for a long time as I didn't have my spa yet and finnally asked my first question and I think it probably was the stupidest ever asked on Doc's site! After reading Doc's site I realized the other was B.S. I came here when I got my tub and Doc's site was missing dealers and the old regulars didn't post much there any more. Doc does get a lot of technical questions asked there and it is beyond me to answer but whenever I can I do try to help.

Pathfinder,

My belief is that some dealers don't know squat! Not all dealers but some. As I said I do use bleach in the pool but unless my CYA is through the roof or my calcium is too high I use cal hypo. IMO, it's just as cheap as bleach. I just recently bought 50lbs of it for $80 ... it goes a long way. At that site ALL dealers are lying, blood sucking leaches. At the original site if you mentioned something other than bleach - you'd get banned. Other than one person who seems to be a chemist all are either non pool professionals, pool professionals who take care of pools with bleach or salt water generator people. I am not a pool or spa professional but I don't blindly follow advice. Quite honestly the chemist is too over my head for a recreational activity such as a pool or spa.

They do have some good advice on pool care but you're right - all hell breaks loose when you deviate from their program. If they say use bleach and I say I use cal hypo - but your calcium will go through the roof (can't ust that CYA card )

As far as that photo, I'll be banned if I don't submit it soon ... of course it has to be generic bleach because clorox is too expensive!

[tony]

I know the site and I wouldn't dare post there because it is cult like.   And I am a liquid chlorine user along with trichlor in my pool.

[Richs100]

And I am a liquid chlorine user along with trichlor in my pool.

[size=36]DIE, HERETIC![/size]  

[Vinny]

I know the site and I wouldn't dare post there because it is cult like.   And I am a liquid chlorine user along with trichlor in my pool.

It's funny as the original site was my first introduction to water chemisty. It sounded like they really had a handle on it all and they can run a pool cheaply. Some of the things do make sense, the amount of CYA and the BBB way of chems for the pool. But honestly as I got more intune to water chemistry some of the things can be questioned and that's a no no there ( i.e. why can't a person use cal hypo and not bleach or get the alkalinity up first before adjusting PH). At the original site the founder has disappeared and the longer time folks are trying to keep it running and they really do have a handle on it. Since he isn't around some are OK with trichlor (watch the CYA) but I think people are running with his idea and modifing it (kind of like Bruce Lee's Jeet Kwon Do) to become a system or a cult. A few years ago they went into panic mode because clorox added another whitener to their bleach.

Quite honestly, there is a great knowledge base at the original site for pools. My recent problem was that something ate my CYA and I was fighting algea all summer long. The original gang was able to help me fight the problem and I think it is solved. I don't know if the new site has that much knowledge or they are spouting what they have "learned" . They obviously have closed minds as my observations to them meant nothing because I used dichlor.

As a matter of fact, one of them said that dichlor is being banned in some parts of the country, I asked about if it was for commercial spas and didn't get an answer.

Yeah, it's like a cult ... fortunately I am able not to become programmed.

I probably won't use that site much only when and if I have problems and the original site goes down. And I certainly won't be giving any advice! I too am a trichlor and cal hypo user, not to mention a dichlor for the spa user.

Like Rich said, things sometimes look great until you gain some knowledge.

[autoplay]

You recently visited a scary place,first thought/s in my head were.......You visited Conjuna at the the spa farm,or,you were referring to Conjunas brain

[Vinny]

Every so often after reading the stuff you guys post I do go there and look.

I realize that he really is being close to a self delusional cult leader. The type that will pass poisened drinks or have his followers kill themselves. But yet he is free to walk this earth!

[Brewman]

He's self delusional, alright.  The only reason he's not a cult leader is that only a couple people are stupid enough to believe his claptrap.  And I think a cult needs a good dozen or more members to achieve any economy of scale.

Funny, that the cult that comitted suicide a few years ago has more followers then conJ.  And that cult preached som pretty far out stuff- they all had rolls of quarters by their heads so they could make phone calls home from Venus, or where ever in the heck they thought they were going.  

ConJ only has a fraction of those followers- and also a website that for the uninformed, can be quite convincing.  Until you realize that he writes all the so called articles that he constantly links to.  

 So he's really a cult leader looking for sheeple.