Info needed about Master Spas 1999/2000 FS 670 L

[Nitrousman]

Hi everyone, I'm looking at used spas to replace my old 1990 Calspa. I found a Master Spas 1999 or 2000 FS 670 L 5 seater for $750 bucks that's been inside all it's life so the tub is in good shape except for a large chlorine stain in the seat where the owner left a large pile of chlorine sit for days. It also needs a cover. I can't find much info about this tub so I was wondering if anyone has/had one and could let me know if they're very good quality. The tub has all Balboa electronics and 29 jets. Thanks for any info.

[Deron]

Nitrousman,
The 670L is a Freedom Spa. This is an old entry-line spa that we manufactured a few years ago. You can find details of this spa at www.freedomspas.us Please feel free to let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks.

Deron Hess
Master Spas, Inc.

[Nitrousman]

I already looked at that site and it really doesn't tell me anything about the quality of the older tubs.

[drewstar]

The stuff that's been posted here about Master isn't very flattering to their sales tatics and service.  Since, you're going used that all might be a moot point.

The other big issue I've seen with master is the cabinet skirting.  Once again, from what's being posted here, (search for "little tykes" )  it looks pretty  bad.   If your putting this out in the snow, then I'd be concerned.

[Nitrousman]

The tubs currently inside so the skirting is in good shape but I'll be putting it out on my deck so it will see some snow this year in Michigan. It's a wood panel gray skirting. Will the panels fall apart or is it a problem with it being poorly insulated? Thanks.

[drewstar]

My concern is that the tub is insulated using a "Thermal" method. This means that there is minimal to no convetional insualtion inside the cabinet.   The tub is insulated by captureing the heat off the motors and heating the air in the cabinet.   IF the air in the cabinet is equal to the desired water temp, there is not heat loss (see Thermal equilibrium).
This can work well, BUT the shell and the skirt need to be sealed up tightly, any gaps and leaks and you're pouring heat out of the cabinet.    Master spas have been known to have really loose fitting skirts with huge gaps. Thermal style insualtion only works well if the the cabinet is tight.

Your old Cal Spa was insulated by putting foam fully around the pipes and tub. The Cabinet is fully foamed. Full foamed tubs insulate well, but if there's a leak in ther, it could be a mess (fortuanley most leaks occur by the pump).   Your full foam spa is alos quieter, because sound and vibration is dampend by the foam. and the plumbing (specfically the pipes running around the spa) is also supported .

Vibration and sound may be  an issue since it's on your deck. Vibrations from the Master spa will be louder. (also Thermal tubs require you to run the pumps several times a day to generate "Waste Heat" so the cabinet stays warm.)   This tub is  a bit differnt than what you had before.  

I was going to say, since this is used, you could ask the folks what they were paying for electricty, but you mentioned they kept this baby inside.       I bet you electrical cost for heating this will be 3X in the winter than your cal spa.  



With any used tub consider you will probably need a new cover, and replace the filters as well.

[East_TX_Spa]

I believe this is what drewstar is referring to:




Terminator

[Nitrousman]

Is see what you guys mean now. So there's really not a good fix for this then is there? This MasterSpa is older and the sides are wood and I didn't notice the big gaps at the bottom but the insulation looked similar. I also have a guy locally that has a 2000 year CalSpa that everything works good but he says the skirting looks pretty weathered. The CalSpa is a 5-6 seater with 2 pump and says it has the Energy Saver 3000 controls but he says the wood surround should be replaced which is probably pretty easy. The bonus with the CalSpa is it's about the same size as my current CalSpa so I can use my 1.5 year old cover. My tub still works it's just a pain trying to keep it at a good temperature without the digital controls and the wood on mine looks like crap. Would I be better off with the 2000 CalSpa instead of the MasterSpa? Thanks again.

[drewstar]

Power wash the cedaron the Cal Spa  and refinish it?

If the older Master is sealed up, it might be ok. It's hard to tell.   We're talking about 7 year old used spas.   What are you expectaions (cost to run, years of  use, matience costs)?

[Nitrousman]

My current CalSpa is a 1990 with Redwood exterior that when my parents had it they never cleaned the wood or stained it so now the Redwood likes to crumble when you squeeze it. The 2000 CalSpa I'm going to look at tonight I think has Redwood exterior also but the panels come off with just a few screws where as my current tub the panels are part of the structure so there's no easy removel. I guess I could make my own panels and replace them on the 2000? Do you think the MasterSpa is going to cost more to heat in the winter than my current CalSpa? My current CalSpa probably costs me $60 to $80 a month in the winter to run. I really want something that has digital controls so I can set it at one temperature and not have to worry that when I go out to get in it at 10:00 at night that it's 120 degrees which has happened more than once or that it only 70 because the stupid timer got stuck 2 days ago and hasn't heated or filtered the tub and yes I've replaced the timer twice.

[Gary]

$750 for a new Master spa is too much let alone a 7-year old one.

[Spatech_tuo]

I found a Master Spas 1999 or 2000 FS 670 L 5 seater for $750 bucks that's been inside all it's life so the tub is in good shape

Have you seen it running? If not you're simply moving it out of the way for the owner and hoping it won't be too much hassle or too costly to get/keep it running. If you don't see it running this isn't much better than all those cases of people getting "free" spas where they are really just taking a big boat anchor off somone's hands. Then again, sometimes there are great bargains out there on these nearly free spas so it's a crapshoot. While it may not be a favorite brand of many, if you see it running and it checks out fine its not a big gamble $wise. If you're only going on a promise of "it was running just fine before I unhooked it!" I'd say thanks but no thanks (unless you don't mind projects with undefinable outcomes).

[drewstar]

My current CalSpa probably costs me $60 to $80 a month in the winter to run. I really want something that has digital controls so I can set it at one temperature and not have to worry that when I go out to get in it at 10:00 at night that it's 120 degrees which has happened more than once or that it only 70 because the stupid timer got stuck 2 days ago and hasn't heated or filtered the tub and yes I've replaced the timer twice.

Wow. that's a lot. I bet your had the original cover on that?  A tight good fitting cover will make a huge difference in any spa.   This is complete conjecture, but I would guess that the old Master with a good cover would cost about the same as cal spa with a bad cover (assuming the master has a good tight skirt). if it's got holes then forgattaboutit.

 You need a new tub.

[Nitrousman]

Have you seen it running? If not you're simply moving it out of the way for the owner and hoping it won't be too much hassle or too costly to get/keep it running. If you don't see it running this isn't much better than all those cases of people getting "free" spas where they are really just taking a big boat anchor off somone's hands. Then again, sometimes there are great bargains out there on these nearly free spas so it's a crapshoot. While it may not be a favorite brand of many, if you see it running and it checks out fine its not a big gamble $wise. If you're only going on a promise of "it was running just fine before I unhooked it!" I'd say thanks but no thanks (unless you don't mind projects with undefinable outcomes).

I've not seen either of them run yet but the one guy (MasterSpa) offered to fill it and run it before I buy it. The CalSpa I'm looking at tonight and I don't know if it has water in it now.

[Nitrousman]

Wow. that's a lot. I bet your had the original cover on that?  A tight good fitting cover will make a huge difference in any spa.   This is complete conjecture, but I would guess that the old Master with a good cover would cost about the same as cal spa with a bad cover (assuming the master has a good tight skirt). if it's got holes then forgattaboutit.

 You need a new tub.

No I bought a new cover about 1.5 years ago when I hooked up the tub and it fits good. I just can't bring myself to spend $8000 plus dollars on a new tub since I could windup stuck with a new piece of crap like I keep reading about and most of the dealers in my area suck from what I've researched.