Tub Owner Wins Battle vs. Home Owners Assoc

[Zep]

[size=20]Hot tub lands in hot water[/size]
March 15, 2007

Condominium boards can sometimes be a pain.

Find a condo owner, and he or she likely has a story about bumping heads with condominium board members over some of the oddest things.

For instance, I once had a battle with my condo board about how powerful a light bulb I could legally use on my balcony.

To cut down on communal power bills, the board had a rule that limited such lighting to a mere 15 watts, making barbecuing at night a bit of a challenge.

When I flouted the law by installing an illegal 30-watt bulb, I received a written warning under my door to toe the line.

How someone could tell from ground level that my third-floor balcony light bulb was 15 watts brighter than allowable was beyond me, but there you go.

But my story is a blip on the annoyance Richter scale compared to what former soldier Bernie Robitaille just went through.

Robitaille landed in hot water with his condo association after he installed a six-person hot tub on the patio of his ground-floor river valley unit last summer.

He only did so after perusing his condo association bylaws and found that there was no ban on hot tubs. He applied for the appropriate permits from the city, had the installation inspected and figured he would have many great nights peacefully soaking in his tub.

As it turned out, the installation brought anything but peace. The condo board ordered him to remove it.

Robitaille, though, knows a thing or two about following rules and fighting for principles, having served with the Canadian Armed Forces. He decided to dig in for a skirmish.

"I served five years in the military defending the constitutional rights of Canadians, and I just figured I wasn't going to forfeit my rights to the whims of a couple of people on a condo board," said Robitaille.

The battle was on. The board hired a lawyer and Robitaille was forced to do the same.

The board's lawyer fired a few volleys at Robitaille, claiming the hot tub could be a hazard, might result in noise in the complex, could increase insurance premiums for the board and was unsightly.

It couldn't point to a specific condo association bylaw banning hot tubs, though, because, well, there wasn't one.

The board further attacked saying the tub could increase water bills for the whole complex.

Robitaille was forced into court to defend his tub. He won that fight but the condo board appealed the decision and Robitaille found himself in court this week.

In the midst of all of this, a neighbour wrote a letter complaining the smell of chlorine from the tub was bothering her and that the chlorine may have killed a nearby shrub.

Robitaille responded by having his tub's water tested against the city's H2O. The test showed the city's tap water contained more chlorine than that of the hot tub.

The final battle this week saw a Queen's Bench judge throw cold water on all the condo board's anti-tub arguments.

The judge found Robitaille had followed all the rules and was entitled to keep his hot tub.

The former soldier is relieved.

"I think it shows that people who get notices from condo boards don't have to just roll over and follow them if they've done their due diligence," said Robitaille, who was awarded some court costs but will likely still be out of pocket several thousand dollars for legal fees.

It seems to me this might be the perfect occasion for a celebratory hot tub party - a quiet one, of course.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Columnists/Diotte_Kerry/2007/03/15/3755033.html

[wmccall]

Robitaille responded by having his tub's water tested against the city's H2O. The test showed the city's tap water contained more chlorine than that of the hot tub

Either he timed it right or uses Bromine

[brewski]

I'm no lawyer here in the states much less Canada, but it seems to me that the condo association should be responsible for this gentleman's legal fees. Is he entitled to sue the HOA in order to collect his legal expenses? Doesn't seem right to me if he can't.

[wmccall]

I'm no lawyer here in the states much less Canada, but it seems to me that the condo association should be responsible for this gentleman's legal fees. Is he entitled to sue the HOA in order to collect his legal expenses? Doesn't seem right to me if he can't.

Wild guess here, but I'm guessing if you sue to condo ass.  The fees goes up and all the other owners hate you and your tub gets filled with cement mix.

[windsurfdog]

Yet another good reason to avoid HOA's if possible...

[Zep]

re: "Yet another good reason to avoid HOA's if possible..."

Personally I love mine because it upholds certain standards.

It can prevent alot of stuff certain neighborhoods don't want.

People before they move-in should closely examine HOA rules and if they don't like the rules then don't move there!

Mine prevents parking cars/boats/travel trailers/motorcycles day after day on the street in front of homes.

Prevents somebody from painting their house pink.

Prevents chain link fences.

Prevents garage conversions.

Prevents after market carports.

Prevents someone from cementing their front yard because they don't like mowing.

Prevents somone from placing a window on a 2nd story where they can peer down on my hot tub while I am soaking.

Ect...Ect....Ect.....

2EachHisOwn....but I love my HOA!

[Tatooed_Lady]

I dealt with condo associations for almost 10 years...lemme just say that it was a HUGE pain in the arse.  I tried hard to just keep to myself, but the neighbors (unit owners, as I was) would pick and pick and pick...and they wouldn't say anything to me about any problems, they'd go straight to the board (aka "MOMMY!!!"), file a complaint, whereas I'd get a nasty letter, threats of fines, etc...I realize some of the rules were meant to keep the neighborhood nice, but there's a fine line between keeping order and playing God....

[Chas]

I had to deal with several when I was doing commercial pool service. Wow - what a hassle. Give me a good ol' management company or an individual anyday.

 8-)

[Bill75]

I agree with the homeowner:  I am glad to see the HOA forced to keep to the rules.  I think the key to the character of the HOA is the kind of people that compose it's board of directors.  The board of directors is elected by the membership.  If the membership elects people who are very controlling and rigid, then that is the character of the board.

Now to my story:  I am the president of our HOA board, and have been for the last four years.  I got involved because I wanted the HOA to have the lightest possible impact on our neighborhood.  We enforce the covenants, and we try to apply as much common sense as possible in interpreting the covenants.  I have been fortunate that the majority of the board agrees with my philosophy.  One reason we have been able to keep that philosophy going is that those who volunteered to run for election agree with me.  However, it is difficult to get people involved.  On every election we have had to have "second elections" because we have not been able to reach our quorum (25%) for an election.  

I think the bottom line is that an HOA is another "government".  You can see the rules before you buy.  If you don't like the rules, don't buy in the development.  If you don't like the way it is being run, do something to change it.  Run for office and change the way it is governed.  Change the covenants.  Do something constructive instead of just complaining about it.

All that being said, my personal preference is for a neighborhood without covenants.  However, I think we have been successful at walking the middle ground between letting "anything goes" and being so restrictive that we have "lawn police" out looking for paper on the lawn to write up "tickets".

Bill

[hotubinn]

I think the bottom line is that an HOA is another "government".  You can see the rules before you buy.  If you don't like the rules, don't buy in the development.

Sounds good in theory, but most HOA covenants I have seen are about the size of a phone book for a large city!  Nearly impossible to read and understand.  These HOA hold all the power, they have an endless supply of money- usually with an attorney already on the payroll.  Just my 2 cents

[Zep]

Bill....thanks for the great post.

You are making me feel guilty!

I love my HOA, but I have not had the time to
get involved except paying my $50 a month dues.
(my HOA has not anywhere close to an "endless supply of money")

I am very appreciative of the work the board does in
trying to maintain high standards for our neighborhood.

My HOA seems to take the same approach as you do.

They are not intrusive or nagging, but like to gently
get homewoners to not act in a way that makes
home values deteriorate.

But like you say...whats great is....if you don't
like HOA then don't move into one.

IMO it's funny...because people that move into
one and then complain....don't seem to understand
that probably a big part of why they were attracted
to the neighborhood was because the HOA had
been maintaining high standards....then they move
in and want to start "building carports"!

My next goal is to live in a gated community, but
it's going to take a little more hard work to get there!

[wmccall]

Frazier did a great episode about HOA's

[Gary]

Sounds good in theory, but most HOA covenants I have seen are about the size of a phone book for a large city!  Nearly impossible to read and understand.  These HOA hold all the power, they have an endless supply of money- usually with an attorney already on the payroll.  Just my 2 cents

Sorry but that is an asinine statement, it does not matter if it is one page or ten thousand it is still your choice to move into the area. If you choose not to read it then it is your fault.

I would never move to a place that had a HOA, most of them would probably object to me shooting guns off the front porch.

[hotubinn]

Zep, how many homeowners are in your association?  Multiply that number by 50.  That is the total amount of money collected every month... forever (or at least until the charter runs out).  My guess is that would be a substantial number, much more than any one individual could dream to match...that is unless your loaded, in which case you wouldn't be living in an area that charges such a small amount every month.

I view HOA's as being similar to the ACLU, both started out as a great idea, but then a few extremists turn it into a virtual communist state.  Again, just my 2 cents

[Zep]

Zep, how many homeowners are in your association?  Multiply that number
by 50.  That is the total amount of money collected every month... forever
(or at least until the charter runs out).  


Hotubinn....I would think there are about 90 homeowners in my home
owners association.

Which would equate to 54K a year if everyone pays, which doesn't happen,
but lets just pretend everyone does.

Thats really not a lot of money when you consider landscaping/mowing/flowers,
sprinklers, fountains, electric bills, water bills, security lighting, holiday lighting,
meetings/newsletters/phone directory, insurance, ect....

I mean it's not like there is tons of money left over to be dragging
people to court and I am not aware of any homeowner being sued
anyway. Legal fees in 2006 were $300 according to my HOA year
end report.

My guess is that would be a substantial number, much more than any one
individual could dream to match...


Lets again pretend....say that 15K of the 54 is surplus....which
is far from the truth....but for the sake of the argument....15K in legal fees
is almost nothing these days.[/color]

that is unless your loaded,

Well thats relative isn't it?
Loaded? Compared to who?
There are quite a few houses within this HOA in the 700-900K range
which in Dallas is a pretty nice crib. Yes I wish mine was in that range
but I ain't there yet....still working on it!  

in which case you wouldn't be living in an area that charges such a small
amount every month.

?

 
I view HOA's as being similar to the ACLU, both started out as a great
idea, but then a few extremists turn it into a virtual communist state.  

Well that is not the case with my homeowners association
and I am very happy they are maintaining property values and keeping
"half wits" from placing Pink Flamingos and junk cars out in front of their
houses.

As far as the ACLU you are subject to their judicial wims being a citizen of
the United States but with a HOA you are free to not buy a house within a
HOA community and live across the street.

Again, just my 2 cents

Mine too!...Hey 2EachHisOwn.


Footnote:

My HOA publishes and accounts for every single cent of the 54K they receive
from the $600 dollars a year dues and there is not alot of money left over.
They have not raised dues in years and are very careful on money spent.